Good Read - Off Duty/CCW encounter

[staticstang]

Here is a good read that I found on another forum that I frequent....

Found the link - Blood lessons

 

[public servant]

Good read. Thanks!

 

[Bill B]

A great article, thank you.
It really does add a dimension to all the "get involved or not?" debates here and otherwise.
As the officer attests, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to get involved.

 

[MedicMike]

Very good read, Thanks. That does bring up a good point of the aftermath that most don't even think about.

 

[gohard43]

Great read......really makes ya think..

 

[sj kahr k40]

Link?

 

[00BlasterResto]

Well.... thats to bad.

 

[staticstang]

Found the link - Blood lessons

 

[henktermaat]

Good read... this is why armed involvement will be a last resort (for me). The perp running off is better than a dead kid bystander.

 

[Jubba]

Great article, thanks for posting.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Found the link - Blood lessons

Thanks for posting this

 

[Stschil]

A Quote from the linked article :




Truer words have never been spoken. I have sympathy for the LEO who wrote this article.

This should be in the minds of all of us who carry for self defense. Sometimes, to protect yourself and/or your family, it means to Get Out Of Dodge before the shooting starts. The firearm is and should be a last resort choice. IMHO Not to say that that choice can't be forced upon us very quickly.

 

[Bigum1969]

Thanks for the link.

You have to appreciate the honesty of the police officer who wrote it.

The saddest part is a 9-year old died. Would the child have been spared if the officer took cover with his family?

Who knows. But is sure is food for thought.

 

[Demo]

Thanks for the link. Very, very sad.

Would of could of should of. Most of us aren't LEOs so we should, in my opinion, not even consider hanging around and engaging a perp. Our job is protecting ourselves and our own if they are with us.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

A great article, thank you.
It really does add a dimension to all the "get involved or not?" debates here and otherwise.
As the officer attests, just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to get involved.

No, it doesn't. It should add a dimension to the "can you pull the trigger first if at all" debate. This was a trained SWAT officer that was totally unprepared. Unprepared to kill. Unprepared to egress his family. Unprepared to meet a threat. Unprepared to assess the situation for additional threats. He said he didn't do a lot of the things he should have done.

Good read... this is why armed involvement will be a last resort (for me). The perp running off is better than a dead kid bystander.

You don't know that the perp wouldn't have shot many more people to create a diversion in his effort to get away. Look how bold this guy was. Broad daylight and he's robbing a McDonald's walking around with a gun.

It would make sense to create a panic situation to ensure a safe exit. What better way than shoot a few customers? It also gives the police more to think about than just capturing the perp. They need to help get the wounded medical care.

A Quote from the linked article :

"The smartest, most responsible thing I could have done would have been to take care of my family first. I should have seen personally to their safety. If I had grabbed them and gone outside, I would have spared them this entire experience, and that little girl would probably still be alive today.

Words cannot describe the emotions we all went through after this incident. I recognized afterward that it could have been one of my children lying dead because of my actions. When you are off-duty, your first responsibility is to your family. Never forget this."

Truer words have never been spoken. I have sympathy for the LEO who wrote this article.

This should be in the minds of all of us who carry for self defense. Sometimes, to protect yourself and/or your family, it means to Get Out Of Dodge before the shooting starts. The firearm is and should be a last resort choice. IMHO Not to say that that choice can't be forced upon us very quickly.

Again, there is no way to know how many people he saved that day.

Thanks for the link.

You have to appreciate the honesty of the police officer who wrote it.

The saddest part is a 9-year old died. Would the child have been spared if the officer took cover with his family?

Who knows. But is sure is food for thought.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. Anyone that is bold enough to rob a packed McDonald's is bold enough to do anything.

The better question is would the 9-year old have lived had the officer shot the perp without warning.

Thanks for the link. Very, very sad.

Would of could of should of. Most of us aren't LEOs so we should, in my opinion, not even consider hanging around and engaging a perp. Our job is protecting ourselves and our own if they are with us.

Then why carry a gun? If you aren't going to use it, why have it?

It's not about being macho or Rambo. My Rambo days are over. I don't fight, jump out of planes, repel out of helicoptors, or do anything fun anymore. But I can damn sure still shoot straight.

The smartest, most responsible thing I could have done would have been to take care of my family first. I should have seen personally to their safety. If I had grabbed them and gone outside, I would have spared them this entire experience, and that little girl would probably still be alive today.

BS. Unlike the officer, the perp was prepared to fire the first shot. There's no way to know if the perp would have shot even more people. The officer could well have save many lives. We'll never know.

I drew my weapon, announced myself and took a kneeling position behind the counter.

He had the advantage of cover. He had the element of suprise. Then he gave it all up and failed. The little girl didn't die because he engaged the perp. She died because he failed to do what he needed to do, which was take the first and only shots.

Gunfights aren't supposed to be fair fights. He should have assumed a covered position and shot the dirtbag in the face 17 times. Not a sound. Not a word uttered. Not a peep. Just boom and a dead perp.

The lesson here is not that you shouldn't get involved. The lesson is that you need to be prepared to shoot someone dead without so much as hello. If you can't your gun is worthless.

 

[HandK]

A good read, and great advice!

 

[indyjoe]

Good read... this is why armed involvement will be a last resort (for me). The perp running off is better than a dead kid bystander.

Yep. This is where annoucing can hurt. If he fired into the criminal immediately, chances are the outcome would have been just a felon down. However, that is a tough call if you aren't 100% sure the person is the criminal. In this case, it was pretty clear cut.

I would tend towards getting the family out and turning on my cell video camera to get as much usable info as I can.

 

[wtfd661]

Good post, thank you.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Good post, thank you.

Really? Neg rep me for saying the officer failed? Seriously? He did what then, succeed? You call telling someone you're there and you're a cop and allowing them to get off two shots success? You think he did good? You think it's a model to be taught in law enforcement academies around the world? Let a bad guy with a gun and a room full of hostages and targets know you're there and a cop and armed? WHAT PLANET IS THAT SUCCESS ON? Planet Shootmeplease? I call it FAILED. FAILED FAILED FAILED FAILED FAILED FAILED FAILED! Neg rep me again for telling the TRUTH. Whatever.

You think fast. That's what you do in a crisis. He said he hadn't even thought about the potential of another shooter. SWAT officer for 15 years and he didn't think about another shooter. FAILED. That was my first thought. He didn't think that his warning would have told the shooter to shoot at him? FAILED.

Yeah I made a lot of assumptions. Because that's what I'm trained to do. You're looking for other bad guys. You're playing the scenerio out in your mind. You're thinking about ending a threat. He should have taken the first shot AND HE DIDN'T. FAILED.

BTW, HE said he failed. He questioned whether he did the right thing. I'm not using the tragedy of this story to hide and run away from a confrontation in the future. I'm using it to double my resolve to shoot first and straightest.

If you're ever in that situation, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE run away. I don't want your definition of success to succeed.

 

[WebSnyper]

Definitely a thought provoking read. Thanks