Glock 2.0 - what the Gen IV should have been

[HICKMAN]

I wrote a scalding review of the Gen4 Glock 17 when I first saw one at Bradis. Got alot of flack for it. I wasn't impressed at all, and won't let my Gen3's go for a Gen4. No way.

you wrote a review based on what you saw?

 

[HICKMAN]

When I saw rail on a compact, I mean the baby Glocks. Glock may call the G19 a compact, but that is their term. I have a G19 and I do not consider it a compact by any means.

Maybe, just maybe, that means the market didn't want it changed? And for those that do, there are plenty of aftermarket parts to take care of that.

I wouldn't want the Vanek Custom trigger in my competition gun in my carry gun, the stock one with the .25 trigger job is just fine.

 

[remymartin]

I didn't read most of this thread. I have Glocks, I prefer Glocks, that's not the point. I have a Gen4 17 and love it, not a single problem yet in over 1000 rds. My EDC is a gen2 G23 (bought used 13 years ago, looks beat to hell) with a slightly modified grip angle and stippled surface, which almost reproduces the Gen4 with no backstrap. I have a plug in my 23, not for dirt, but smoother reloading. It has been proven that a little dirt does not stop a Glock especially in the hole in the back. If you don't like a Glock, Don't buy a Glock, But don't hate a Glock until you handle and experience one. I own other pistols I'm a huge Sig fan, but I only walk out the door with one. It might be ugly, but it's gonna work and it's gonna hurt.

 

[kingnereli]

I didn't read most of this thread. I have Glocks, I prefer Glocks, that's not the point. I have a Gen4 17 and love it, not a single problem yet in over 1000 rds. My EDC is a gen2 G23 (bought used 13 years ago, looks beat to hell) with a slightly modified grip angle and stippled surface, which almost reproduces the Gen4 with no backstrap. I have a plug in my 23, not for dirt, but smoother reloading. It has been proven that a little dirt does not stop a Glock especially in the hole in the back. If you don't like a Glock, Don't buy a Glock, But don't hate a Glock until you handle and experience one. I own other pistols I'm a huge Sig fan, but I only walk out the door with one. It might be ugly, but it's gonna work and it's gonna hurt.

Actually, It seems the OP was trying to be quite constructive with his criticism of a firearm he says he prefers. You should read the whole thread. It hasn't been the hate fest you are assuming. Also, there is the possibility that you are overlooking the fact that, by all appearances, everyone who has posted in this thread has "handled and experienced" a glock enough to form an educated opinion.

 

[kingnereli]

Give 'em some time, these are still the protoype frames....it's been almost 2 years in the making to get these out.



the prototypes were just released a couple weeks ago.

Are you aware of plans to produce a frame for the G20/21?

 

[Indy317]

The design is over 20 years old. It is time for a significant upgrade and/or second model.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!! Really, I do think Glock needs to add a few things, or at least make them available:
#1: An extended slide lock
#2: An extended mag release lever
#3: Extended slide stop lever
#4: Back grip pieces to make the grip smaller or larger.
#5: Second strike capability

What I would like to see, but won't* is:
-A mag release similar to the HK USP

As far as the design itself, it can't be changed. Doing so would only harm future Glock sales. There are literally hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of holsters based solely on the current Glock frame. I think the triggers are fine, and we won't ever see what I propose because:

-The mag release being changed to that of an HK USP style release would totally alter the guns frame and might prevent it from working with certain holsters (specifically molded holsters) depending on the size _and_ it would make all current magazines obsolete for the new guns.

#s 1-3 are taken care of by readily available, inexpensive parts from third parties.

#4 has been taken care of by the new design, though I don't care for the RTF so I will never get that as an option.

#5: This would be nice, especially for dry firing, but my guess is that it would totally change the internal workings of the gun, so I doubt we will see that.

 

[TheDude]

My thoughts? My Glock-19 2nd gen, GS prefix from long ago, LEO trade in from who knows where, or how many rounds through it. I added Trijicon N/S and a NY-1. That to me is how all Glocks should be....K.I.S.S. principal. (I realize we all have different opinions) but a stock Glock is how Glock Inc should be, if it aint broke dont fix it.

The 2nd generation is where they should have stopped and just added a light rail and steel sights. The best gen. in my opinion

 

[teddy12b]

The number 1 non-cosmetic complaint I've ever heard about on glocks is the grip angle. I waited for the Gen 4 glocks to come out in hopes that they would change the grip angle. When it came out and it was still wrong, I passed. If they ever fixed the grip angle they'd bring in some more business.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

Damnit I wish the ass cancer would have just finished him off.

Steve Jobs had pancreatic cancer not colon cancer. This is one of the deadliest forms of cancer and has an overall 5 year survival rate of 5.6%. Further, over half of cases are caught in the later stages and the 5 year survival rate is 1.9%.

(see: http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/pancreas.html)

Given his survival of pancreatic cancer and his successful liver transplant, it is basically a statistical miracle that Mr. Jobs is even alive.

Finally, wishing the death of any person on a public forum, even as a joke, is simply uncalled for.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

Actually, It seems the OP was trying to be quite constructive with his criticism of a firearm he says he prefers. You should read the whole thread. It hasn't been the hate fest you are assuming. Also, there is the possibility that you are overlooking the fact that, by all appearances, everyone who has posted in this thread has "handled and experienced" a glock enough to form an educated opinion.

Thank you. +1.

 

[Indy317]

Steve Jobs had pancreatic cancer not colon cancer. This is one of the deadliest forms of cancer and has an overall 5 year survival rate of 5.6%. Further, over half of cases are caught in the later stages and the 5 year survival rate is 1.9%.

(see: Cancer of the Pancreas - SEER Stat Fact Sheets)

Given his survival of pancreatic cancer and his successful liver transplant, it is basically a statistical miracle that Mr. Jobs is even alive.

Given the fact he has billions likely has something to do with it as well.

 

[Cam]

There's only ONE topic on the planet that I am overly opinionated on and just a plain douche if you will...Apple products. Buy any gun, car, wife, boat, sand, mulch, juice, clothes or toilet paper that you like..but Apple products are STRAIGHT UP, DOWN and ACROSS yuppie minded tools of douchery.

The only product Apple produces that is worth a second look is a traditional iPod. Why is it the only item they sell worth a second look? It's the only item old Stevie can't "hitler-ize" like he does with everything else. Damnit I wish the ass cancer would have just finished him off.

Thread jack, I know but I can't help it.

That's a pretty ****ty thing to wish on anyone!

All I can say to this is that my "yuppie minded tool of douchery" is so far superior to anything in PC for the video editing I do that you wouldn't believe it without seeing it. If you only use a computer to post on INGO, you wouldn't understand.

Thread jack over and please accept my apology OP.

 

[Sailor]

Grip angle?

Really?

For some reason, no matter what the handgun, when I focus on the front sight and have good trigger control I get my hits.

I got it for reliability not how it "feels" or looks.

 

[Jimbo Kern]

I'm not trying to pick on you OP, but the stuff you listed as "improvements" to your proposed "Glock 2.0" are purely matters of personal preference. A LOT of people won't find the benefits you do in such modifications. As such, its never going to happen, and indeed SHOULDN'T happen.

The Glock is what it is: A simple, idiot resistant, easily manufactured gun of stoek reliability. The moment you try and make it into anything else, it looses its flavor and its appeal.

If you want bells, wistles, and useless muzzle serations "like a XD" then thats what you should buy... Not a Glock.

 

[teddy12b]

Grip angle? Yeah.

Really? Yeah.

For some reason, no matter what the handgun, when I focus on the front sight and have good trigger control I get my hits. When you close your eyes and bring the gun up do the sights line up for you? For many people who started with pistols at a different grip angle it's not a natural pointing weapon. Not that this can't be corrected by training & practice, but it's still an issue for many.

I got it for reliability not how it "feels" or looks. Couldn't agree more. If they fix the grip angle I'll definately buy one. For now, I might someday.

One thing glock has that nobody else does is a reasonably priced high quaility pistol in 10mm. I don't see any M&P's or XD's in 10mm so I have to give glock credit there.

 

[Sailor]

I must be the odd man out. Grip angle never even crosses my mind.

I believe that if you are drawing your gun correctly you are getting on that front sight right away as your are pressing out forward. If you do this correctly your sights are going to be aligned correctly no matter what gun you have.

It can't be that different can it? Look at pics of Glocks and 1911's side by side. They look similar to me.

You should be able to pick up any gun and get on target.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

If you want bells, wistles, and useless muzzle serations "like a XD" then thats what you should buy... Not a Glock.

And if Glock wants to maintain its dominance in the LE market, then they need to evolve. There are many customers that want other features in a gun they are otherwise familar with and other manufacturers have made the effort to serve these customers. Glock has not.

When the top player in the markets acts like they do not need to change or evolve, eventually their competitors will come along and prove them wrong.

Further, your opinion that front sight serrations are useless is no more or less valuable of an opinion than mine.

Also, any gun that requires a trigger pull to disassemble does not meet the definition idiot proof. Frankly, no gun should be described as idiot proof since doing violates the first rule of firearm safety.

Finally, I do not want to buy another gun. I like the grip angle of my G19. I like the basic position of the controls. I really like the RTF 2 finish. I have about 7 years of muscle memory with the Glock platform. Switching to a new platform would make me less able to defend myself if the need arose.

However, that does not mean the gun cannot be improved. It should be....

 

[HICKMAN]

Grip angle?

Really?

For some reason, no matter what the handgun, when I focus on the front sight and have good trigger control I get my hits.

I got it for reliability not how it "feels" or looks.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

For some reason, no matter what the handgun, when I focus on the front sight and have good trigger control I get my hits.

I got it for reliability not how it "feels" or looks.

Feel includes the quality of a trigger mechanism, the shape and size of the grip, the angle of the grip, the texture of the grip and the position of all the controls.

We all have different bio-mechanics and body measurements. You are correct with good sight picture and trigger control you will hit the target.

However, the time it takes you to hit a target, recover and then hit a target again is influenced significantly by the factors that contribute to "feel" and a gun that works with your bio-mechanics will also be easier to stress. For a carry gun, those issues matter a lot and could be the different between life and death.

If reliability was truly your only concern, a revolver would have been a better choice.

On the other hand, I agree that aesthetics have essentially zero place in determining what EDC gun to buy.

 

[Jimbo Kern]

A pleasure to debate you sir.

When the top player in the markets acts like they do not need to change or evolve, eventually their competitors will come along and prove them wrong.

Evolve into what? The capabilities of the guns your comparing are the same, less cosmetic features such as grip patters and serration placement; even "second strike" is a dubious feature at best.

Further, your opinion that front sight serrations are useless is no more or less valuable of an opinion than mine.

Never said it was.... But you have to admit it is purely a matter of taste: front serrations don't effect the reliability, shoot-ability, or functionality of a pistol at all; they are eye-candy.

Also, any gun that requires a trigger pull to disassemble does not meet the definition idiot proof.

Read my post again: it says "resistant", not "proof". These words have vastly different meanings. In either case, I was referring to the pistols operation, and not cleaning procedures.

Finally, I do not want to buy another gun. I like the grip angle of my G19. I like the basic position of the controls. I really like the RTF 2 finish. I have about 7 years of muscle memory with the Glock platform. Switching to a new platform would make me less able to defend myself if the need arose.

If the current Glock model is running so well for you, please explain how your mostly cosmetic and maintenance tweaks would improve your ability to defend yourself?

Additionally, if your so set in your muscle memory, then what good would something like front slide serrations do for you? Would you not have to change the way you manipulate the slide to use them, thus breaking your muscle memory? It seems like changing the trigger mechanism would pose a similar problem.... so if your modifications were to be done, you would have to completely retrain your slide manipulation as well as your trigger squeeze and reset in order to take advantage of them. I don't think your argument of muscle memory holds up to scrutiny.

I do hope we can keep this fun and clean.