Fla. State Lawmaker Files Bill To Bring Back Firing Squads

[steveh_131]

What about 'em?

This isn't a perfect world. And it isn't populated with perfect humans. It goes without saying that mistakes will happen. I am not excusing the mistakes, nor am I condoning them. I am being realistic about what life within a society like our is really like. Not the utopian dreamworld people want it to be.

I don't favor abolishing the death penalty just because innocent people are executed. The death penalty isn't responsible for their wrongful conviction. You want to avoid their death, start there.

Yes, it's cold and harsh approach. Yes, I would be pissed as hell if one of my family members were wrongfully convicted and subsequently executed. But it would not change my mind about the use of the death penalty because it wasn't the death penalty that failed. YMMV.

So what do we, as a society, gain by executing people instead of incarcerating them? Killing innocent people is a big downside for me. What is the upside?

 

[ATOMonkey]

I have to believe in the possiblity of redemption. It's rather hard to redeem oneself when deceased. Because of that, I can no longer support death sentences.

Also, Indiana's constitution clearly states that the penal code shall be based on the principles of reformation, and not vindictive justice.

 

[88GT]

So what do we, as a society, gain by executing people instead of incarcerating them? Killing innocent people is a big downside for me. What is the upside?

There's no point in discussing this with you. I will not change your mind. You will not change mine. I don't believe you're wrong, I simply disagree with your position. My priorities and values are different. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[steveh_131]

There's no point in discussing this with you. I will not change your mind. You will not change mine. I don't believe you're wrong, I simply disagree with your position. My priorities and values are different. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[88GT]

Dare I ask what you mean by this?

 

[steveh_131]

Dare I ask what you mean by this?

If you're so angered by this discussion then why are you participating in it?

 

[88GT]

If you're so angered by this discussion then why are you participating in it?

I'm not angered. Not in the least. Why would you think that?

 

[steveh_131]

Is it that hard to understand?

Came off as kind of snippy. Sorry if I misread your tone.

Maybe someone else would like to answer my question or continue the discussion?

 

[watkins1988]

I think the death penalty should only be used when there is NO doubt, no beyond a reasonable doubt. As stated there have been many on death row for crimes they did not commit and it is a horrible travesty to kill anyone for a crime they did not commit.

On the other hand, when you know they did it(Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, or even these guys in Connecticut) they should be put down as soon as possible. The line of proof should be extremely high though.

not sure if i agree with firing squad but ^this i agree with. i dont even understand why there is a trial in some instances. look at jared loughner...many people saw him do it. so why the trial? why spend the money? someone who does that, mental defect or not should be put down. how could someone like that ever be trusted in society again? but im sure we will end up paying his rent and feeding him for the rest of his life.maybe i could see using a firing squad on him. tie him to a pole and give all the victims family members a glock with 33 round mags. and let them dump them..

 

[rambone]

So what do we, as a society, gain by executing people instead of incarcerating them? Killing innocent people is a big downside for me. What is the upside?

I can't think of one. I also can't think of any good reason to bring back firing squads over current methods of execution. Maybe we should bring back the guillotine? That should satisfy the bloodlust.

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[littletommy]

There are many cases I hear of where my first thought is "kill the bastard". Then again, I've personally dealt with the Clark co. prosecutors office, and that there is some dumb, out of touch with reality, mouth breathing inbreds. I can't say I trust any government entity, anywhere, to make logical, fact based decisions anymore. This subject is a very tough call for me.

 

[88GT]

There are many cases I hear of where my first thought is "kill the bastard". Then again, I've personally dealt with the Clark co. prosecutors office, and that there is some dumb, out of touch with reality, mouth breathing inbreds. I can't say I trust any government entity, anywhere, to make logical, fact based decisions anymore. This subject is a very tough call for me.

I'm going to go back to my original point: is that a problem with the death penalty or the judicial process? Does abolishing the death penalty fix incompetence or corruption? Is a wrongfully convicted individual (whether by incompetence or corruption) any better off being incarcerated for life than put to death? That's rhetorical. I don't know the answer. I personally don't see much of a difference. How much is one's quality of life if his freedom is unjustly denied? Is death that much worse? Does the value of life depend in part on being free to live it?

 

[littletommy]

It's definately a problem with the judicial process. I'm not going soft in my old age, I just don't see a system that I trust coming along anytime soon. I do not want the death penalty abolished any more than I want to see 2A abolished, it just makes me question the system now more than ever.

 

[KLB]

I'm going to go back to my original point: is that a problem with the death penalty or the judicial process? Does abolishing the death penalty fix incompetence or corruption? Is a wrongfully convicted individual (whether by incompetence or corruption) any better off being incarcerated for life than put to death? That's rhetorical. I don't know the answer. I personally don't see much of a difference. How much is one's quality of life if his freedom is unjustly denied? Is death that much worse? Does the value of life depend in part on being free to live it?

The fact is there will not be a judicial system in our lifetimes if ever that does not have this problem. Since we know it is flawed, why would you agree to give it the power to end someone's life if they might be innocent?

I think if you ask those that have been freed after spending years in prison for crimes they did not commit, would they rather be alive and free after spending those years in prison or would they rather have died and not been in prison, you will find they are happy to be alive.

On the other hand, if you know without a doubt they did it, get rid of them.

 

[armedindy]

im all for firing squads...when society deems someone not worthy of life, why would we try to masquerade the execution as some sort of medical procedure...lets not hide the fact that were actually killing a human.

 

[88GT]

The fact is there will not be a judicial system in our lifetimes if ever that does not have this problem. Since we know it is flawed, why would you agree to give it the power to end someone's life if they might be innocent?

I think if you ask those that have been freed after spending years in prison for crimes they did not commit, would they rather be alive and free after spending those years in prison or would they rather have died and not been in prison, you will find they are happy to be alive.

On the other hand, if you know without a doubt they did it, get rid of them.

Because it will never be perfect and I don't agree with throwing the baby out with the bathwater just because the bathwater had a speck of dirt in it.

 

[cobber]

im all for firing squads...when society deems someone not worthy of life, why would we try to masquerade the execution as some sort of medical procedure...lets not hide the fact that were actually killing a human.

If it were "society" carrying out the act, but it's not. We delegate this exercise of authority to the government.

Regardless of the means used, you still have a process with at least six possible stages of misconduct (or simply error; remember GIGO):

police
prosecutor
defense counsel
trial judge
jury
appellate judges

I still remember the PR around this case, which led in part to Illinois' blanket death-row pardons. Jeanine Nicarico murder case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Two men were convicted and sentenced to death. A third man confessed to the crime later that year (and was finally convicted in 2009, 24 years after the crime), but the two were retried and convicted again. One after a second retrial. The courts of appeal reversed the convictions about 11 years after the first trials, and in 1996 several LEOs, prosecutors and deputies were indicted for conspiracy in the original cases. I think it would have been cold comfort to the families of the victim, the falsely accused and society in general for the State simply to say "oops, we'll do a better job next time".

In this case a rapid execution would have been a miscarriage of justice, and would have left the actual criminal unpunished for the crime.

Not arguing against capital punishment at all. We just ought to be circumspect about giving the government carte blanche to take life. And the consequences for official misconduct of this kind should be severe as well.

 

[NYFelon]

I can't think of one. I also can't think of any good reason to bring back firing squads over current methods of execution. Maybe we should bring back the guillotine? That should satisfy the bloodlust.

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A little different take on it Ram.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/2190688-post29.html