Fighting through shock?

[jeremy]

Eventually, physiology wins the day. But the human mind is VERY powerful.

Train your mind and your body...and well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs

I had the unique Privilege of meeting Mr Benavidez, and being his escort once...

 

[the1kidd03]

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your opinion.

I'm looking for many contributions here about a problem that I have experienced. Now if you don't mind, could you avoid posting your opinion of every other post? I fear that your domination of the thread might hinder other responses. Thanks again.

Then why not divulge the actual problem/concern you've encountered rather than a vague questionaire for random responses? I mean no offense, but with a vague question you will get vague responses.

I can only give input on what I personally have experienced or been trained in. I study anatomy for defensive purposes to apply to my martial arts training, but I'm not by any means an "expert" in the chemical responses of the body. I can however speak of my experiences in numerous hostile situations and being significantly injured, from which I've already contributed my . If you prefer not to hear from such experiences and simply looking for a very technical response as it relates to modern medicine, then that is where I say "there are others who have much more training than myself" and which I will gladly satisfy your request to shut up due to my lack of expertise (beyond trauma response, first aid, and CPR.)

 

[jeremy]

I believe this is a very important distinction, and one that hasn't been specifically made in this thread yet.

So what are the differences?

Good thread Frame.

I would agree with you this has not really been addressed in this thread.
I think we need to start by attempting to assign definitions to the 2 terms.

Emotional Shock
I would like to change this term to Psychological Trauma to start with, I feel it is a more accurate description of what we are talking of. Psychological trauma is a type of damage to a persons psyche that occurs as a result of a traumatic event.

Physiological Shock
I would also like to change this to just Trauma for much the same reason as above. Trauma is a body wound or shock produced by sudden physical injury, like an accident or violence. Or perhaps a better description would be, as a physical wound or injury. Major trauma can result in secondary complications, Circulatory Failure, Respiratory Failure, and Death. Usually involving multiple Management practices to stabilize or resuscitate a victim/patient…

Does everyone agree on the definitions... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_(medicine)#cite_note-conmed-2

 

[the1kidd03]

I would agree with you this has not really been addressed in this thread.
I think we need to start by attempting to assign definitions to the 2 terms.

Emotional Shock
I would like to change this term to Psychological Trauma to start with, I feel it is a more accurate description of what we are talking of. Psychological trauma is a type of damage to a persons psyche that occurs as a result of a traumatic event.

Physiological Shock
I would also like to change this to just Trauma for much the same reason as above. Trauma is a body wound or shock produced by sudden physical injury, like an accident or violence. Or perhaps a better description would be, as a physical wound or injury. Major trauma can result in secondary complications, Circulatory Failure, Respiratory Failure, and Death. Usually involving multiple Management practices to stabilize or resuscitate a victim/patient…

Does everyone agree on the definitions...

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I believe this is a very important distinction, and one that hasn't been specifically made in this thread yet.

So what are the differences?

Good thread Frame.

I can't find a "quick N dirty" reference / explanation from professional sources (books / web sights) so I'll explain it like this .

There are different types of shock (multiple types can happen at the same time) but most of the signs and symptoms are common to all types so I'll stick with the two we're discussing .

What we're calling "emotional shock " = psychogenic shock .

The jist of it is this , failure to properly / adequately deal with / process a traumatic event / injury , leading to "temporary" complete mental incapacitation .

I'm sure a shrink could better explain that one .

What we're calling "physiological shock" = one or more of the types (cardiogenic , hypovolemic , anaphylactic , etc.) that more specifically affect the organ systems other than the brain or spinal cord .

Clear as mud yet ?

Good , cause it gets y more specific and complicated from here .

Sources : Info "dumbed down" from Brady PHTLS , Informed ALS EMS field guide , SOFmed handbook and 91W field reference .

 

[Coach]

OK, what I'm trying to get to is the psychological shock that comes from one's own injury. I understand there are those "walking dead" that have pushed through phenomenal trauma to "finish the fight." Not unlike heart shot game running 50 yards.

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

How about using anger to fight through it? (I know anger leads to the dark side of the force) You are in a fight and have been hurt, suck it up and get angry and do something about the situation. Many things are more mental than many people realize. It does not matter if you think you can or you think you cannot. You are probably right both times.

 

[camcdonnel]

You have to keep adrenaline in mind also. You see fighters all the time with horrible breaks and injuries and not even notice until it is over.

 

[jeremy]

How about using anger to fight through it? (I know anger leads to the dark side of the force) .

I could give craps about the Sith or Jedi...

However, I have seen persons in Combat who couldn't control their anger and make sound decisions quickly...

 

[bwframe]

OK, what I'm trying to get to is the psychological shock that comes from one's own injury. I understand there are those "walking dead" that have pushed through phenomenal trauma to "finish the fight." Not unlike heart shot game running 50 yards.

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

How about using anger to fight through it? (I know anger leads to the dark side of the force) You are in a fight and have been hurt, suck it up and get angry and do something about the situation. Many things are more mental than many people realize. It does not matter if you think you can or you think you cannot. You are probably right both times.

This is what I'm looking for. When I was injured there was no threat, thus no reason to get angry. However, I think what you mean is along the same line as my reference to the focus on the threat.

It's still difficult to address whether I'm a man or a weenie. Due to the fact that there was no fight for me to finish, I cannot determine whether my involuntary reaction was after everything I needed done was accomplished or just when it happened.

My mission after the injury was to access it while moving to a spot to rest. I accomplished that, then went into shock. It didn't last long, but a burning question on the "what if's" arose in my mind afterward.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

It's still difficult to address whether I'm a man or a weenie. Due to the fact that there was no fight for me to finish, I cannot determine whether my involuntary reaction was after everything I needed done was accomplished or just when it happened.

My mission after the injury was to access it while moving to a spot to rest. I accomplished that, then went into shock. It didn't last long, but a burning question on the "what if's" arose in my mind afterward.

What was the nature of the injury ? What / how were you injured ?

Did you get "light headed" or puke at the sight of your own blood ? Well then , that's easy , your just a weenie . LOL .

I remember "way back when" I was still in the Army , I was helping teach a group of Rangers to give each other IV's for "buddy aid" .

Darn near half the class started fainting when it came time to start sticking each other .

After I stopped laughing at them I remembered the three things that make us all the same no matter how "badass" a guy may seem .

I still get a chuckle remembering that day .

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Use "anger" to get you through it.. Lol!

 

[cwillour]

This is what I'm looking for. When I was injured there was no threat, thus no reason to get angry. However, I think what you mean is along the same line as my reference to the focus on the threat.

It's still difficult to address whether I'm a man or a weenie. Due to the fact that there was no fight for me to finish, I cannot determine whether my involuntary reaction was after everything I needed done was accomplished or just when it happened.

My mission after the injury was to access it while moving to a spot to rest. I accomplished that, then went into shock. It didn't last long, but a burning question on the "what if's" arose in my mind afterward.

Just my , but --

You lived. Time to take what lessons you can from the incident (to prevent a similar incident, if possible) and move on.

You may have felt in a daze, like you couldn't move, or even been non-responsive to a third party, but, without further stimuli present and/or very precise knowledge as to your injuries and pre-morbid capabilities, it is almost impossible to rate your response other than to say if you handled the immediate situation in an appropriate manner.

 

[bwframe]

What was the nature of the injury ? What / how were you injured ?

I had grade 2 hamstring pull/tear. I went too hard in a self defense drill, going beyond my capabilities and conditioning. My leg got stretched, something popped violently, I face planted.

 

[HICKMAN]

Now if you don't mind, could you avoid posting your opinion of every other post? I fear that your domination of the thread might hinder other responses. Thanks again.

Not trying to be too much of a wise ass, but you have a couple of combat vets in here trying to help who probably know more about this subject than those who've just been in training.

 

[jeremy]

I had grade 2 hamstring pull/tear. I went too hard in a self defense drill, going beyond my capabilities and conditioning. My leg got stretched, something popped violently, I face planted.

Ouch...
That will take you several weeks to recover from...

 

[oldfb]

When I had my nd/ad to my hand it took me about a good thirty seconds of disbelief and disorientation before my basic first aid training kicked in and I was able to truly asses the situation and respond appropriately.

The fact that it occurred due to lack of sleep and medication along with a serious case of the terminal stupidity may have caused that nightmare type delay as other real world crisis like fires / explosion and accidents took less than 5 seconds to asses and formulate a proper and effective response before and after being shot.

No dense running into a burning building without a plan is my philosophy. Lol

So yes, anything not life ending and incapacitating should be overcome.

How fast depend on personal mindset, level of trauma and training /experience.

Getting shot in the hand feels like being hit with a red hot sledge hammer or regular hammer.

Fighting through the disbelief was my delay and did not cause a deer in the lights response but a bout of omfg tell me I'm dreaming rant.lol

Be safe and well hope this helps from someone that went through gsw trauma and survived.

Albeit much chagrined and wiser.

 

[HICKMAN]

I had grade 2 hamstring pull/tear. I went too hard in a self defense drill, going beyond my capabilities and conditioning. My leg got stretched, something popped violently, I face planted.

holy cow, heard you got hurt but didn't realize it was that bad.

Praying for a full and speedy recovery my friend.

You going to be doing some cane/crutches drills?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I had grade 2 hamstring pull/tear. I went too hard in a self defense drill, going beyond my capabilities and conditioning. My leg got stretched, something popped violently, I face planted.

Was the faceplant because you fainted or because you were in motion at the time the hamstring gave out ?

 

[oldfb]

Btw to the op, how fast after you face planted were you cussing and trying to get up is probably a more relevant question for you.

In absence of a threat but given acute pain and or trauma might have just overloaded the circuit for a bit. No shame in that brother.


You see that on any given Sunday football is in season.

With no active threat involved it was prudent and appropriate to make sure you didn't compound the injuries.

Rest assured that if it was life or death things would have been much different IMHO.

And were a loved one or child of yours involved unless your leg couldn't physically support you I doubt you would have even hit the ground.

Most likely your mind decided to protect you from the brunt of it.

Be of good cheer sir, pain for sheer heroics is just a huge waste IMO.

 

[bwframe]

Was the faceplant because you fainted or because you were in motion at the time the hamstring gave out ?

Btw to the op, how fast after you face planted were you cussing and trying to get up is probably a more relevant question for you.

I was forcibly going down. I foolishly tried to stop that to leverage myself back up with my leg when it went. I didn't faint and would not have been so aware of the face plant other than my eyepro was cockeyed with sod hanging.

I got up quickly to try the leg and move to a resting spot. I limped a few feet to a chair, (maybe with assistance?) I was embarrassed, trying to keep others from focusing on me. Shortly after shooing them away came the cold sweat and nausea.