Fighting through shock?

[bwframe]

You are injured and going into shock. What are your options? Can you still fight? Can you focus through it?

 

[repeter1977]

You are injured and going into shock. What are your options? Can you still fight? Can you focus through it?

YES!!
but you have to have the proper mind set. Some people see what happens on tv and think if they are hit they are dead. There have been people that have heard the shot, thought they were hit and were out of the fight, even though they were not even hurt.
There are others, that have "war gamed" and prepared, or fight through it. They know that they are not dead or have the mind set to always fight. Here is one that was recently shot in the head and returned to duty
Injured Rochester Police officer returns to work after being shot in the head | www.WHEC.com
There is another story on a female officer (unfortunately I cannot find it at this time) that was ambushed in her driveway, shot in the HEART and fought through, killing and injuring her attacks, and she not only survived but was able to return to duty. Read the stories of some of the injuries that have been survived through. A good portion of survival is their mind set, knowing that they have to survive or that death is not an acceptable option.

 

[Double T]

I would have to say it depends to the actual extent of your injuries. When I had my traumatic hand injury (smashed into a meat cuber...don't ask) there is no way I could fight through that pain. I could feel every beat of my heart in my finger joints. It felt kind of like filling a glove with water with your hand in it. But instead of cool water, it was blood and intense raging pain.

Now, everyone's response is different. BUT since that incident, I am very resilient to pain in other parts of my body; but in those affected fingers minor trauma is brutal.


Again, hypovolemic shock, shock at an event (watching your buds flying to bits), and the shock of or excruciating pain; all give differing responses to the organism and the psyche.

 

[abnk]

I would have to say it depends

I agree. It would depend on the cause of shock and its severity. If the body can function chemically, then the capability to fight is there.

Read MOH citations for proof.

 

[dlbrown75]

Personally I don’t think you will know til you have to. My policeman brother was telling me about the shooting he was involved in recently in muncie. Him and his partner were shot at and both wounded, he didn't realize he was hurt and finished the bad guy. His partner on the other hand did not fare as well. They are both swat guys and have extensive training but when bullets are zinging by and into you its impossible to know how you will cope until you've experienced that situation.

 

[jeremy]

I have always been told it is not the size of the man that wins the fight, but the size of the fight in the man...

To answer you more directly, yes one can fight though shock.

 

[rockhopper46038]

There is emotional shock and there is physiological shock. The first can be overcome through mindset and/or training. The second is more dependent on the type of injury that caused it,as to how long someone could continue to function effectively.

 

[bwframe]

There is emotional shock and there is physiological shock. The first can be overcome through mindset and/or training. The second is more dependent on the type of injury that caused it,as to how long someone could continue to function effectively.

So the emotional is the cold sweat, nausea and lightheadedness? That can be pushed aside to use your still working parts to focus on and eliminate the threat?

How does one train for this?

 

[Ted]

Firearms Tactical: 1986 FBI Miami shootout, Forensic Analysis

Wiki: 1986 FBI Miami shootout

The will to survive is paramount.

April 11, 1986 in Miami-Dade County in Florida, a gunfight ensued between 8 FBI agents and William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the firefight, they both fought on and continued to injure and kill agents.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGfKtuo2AM[/ame]​

This clip is from the TV film "In The Line Of Duty."

Platt himself had sustained 12 gun shot wounds (9mm, .38 and 00 shot) but continued to fight killing Agents Grogan and Dove. Toxicology reports on Platt and Matix found no evidence of drugs or alcohol in either man.

Incidentally, this firefight and the resulting aftermath, were the genesis of the 10mm and .40 S&W rounds

 

[rockhopper46038]

So the emotional is the cold sweat, nausea and lightheadedness? That can be pushed aside to use your still working parts to focus on and eliminate the threat?

How does one train for this?

I can only tell you what I've done, and frankly I have not been exposed to a severe emotional/psychological shock, such as you might get if you saw someone blown away by an I.E.D. right in front of me, so who can say how I might react if the S were ever to really HTF.

Having said that, I recommend non-scripted martial arts as one way to work on it. I worked with a guy who set up alley scenarios where you walked down an alley and even though you knew something was going to happen, you didn't know what or how many people were going to jump you.

Get used to getting hit. I believe that most people succumb to "turtleing" the first time even a superficial blow hits them in the head or face.

Build pain tolerance. If you are unlucky you already know what broken bones, concussions, dislocated shoulders and such feel like, but at least you know the difference between painful and debilitating. And don't much envy you trying to replicate those things voluntarily, though. A bad kidney stone will give you a decent indication of what it feels like to hurt, but know you aren't really dying

Endurance sports (mountain climbing is what I did) will help you figure out that even if you are positive you can't take another step, you really can take another 10,000 steps, if you want it bad enough.

I'm sure there are better ways to try and prepare yourself to combat the effects of emotional/psychological shock than this, but these have worked for minor shock inducing things like bad car wrecks, broken bones in the wild, stupid bar fights, and the like.

 

[the1kidd03]

As far as the emotional/psychological shock, you cannot really train for it. That depends on each person's own mentality. But, as for physical shock there are a few different "types" or "stages" of shock. Some, it is physically impossible to continue certain motor functions when in this "type" or "stage" of shock. Others however, you absolutely can fight through it.

 

[the1kidd03]

I can only tell you what I've done, and frankly I have not been exposed to a severe emotional/psychological shock, such as you might get if you saw someone blown away by an I.E.D. right in front of me, so who can say how I might react if the S were ever to really HTF.

Having said that, I recommend non-scripted martial arts as one way to work on it. I worked with a guy who set up alley scenarios where you walked down an alley and even though you knew something was going to happen, you didn't know what or how many people were going to jump you.

Get used to getting hit. I believe that most people succumb to "turtleing" the first time even a superficial blow hits them in the head or face.

Build pain tolerance. If you are unlucky you already know what broken bones, concussions, dislocated shoulders and such feel like, but at least you know the difference between painful and debilitating. And don't much envy you trying to replicate those things voluntarily, though. A bad kidney stone will give you a decent indication of what it feels like to hurt, but know you aren't really dying

Endurance sports (mountain climbing is what I did) will help you figure out that even if you are positive you can't take another step, you really can take another 10,000 steps, if you want it bad enough.

I'm sure there are better ways to try and prepare yourself to combat the effects of emotional/psychological shock than this, but these have worked for minor shock inducing things like bad car wrecks, broken bones in the wild, stupid bar fights, and the like.

This is all sound advice for a good start.

 

[bwframe]

OK, what I'm trying to get to is the psychological shock that comes from one's own injury. I understand there are those "walking dead" that have pushed through phenomenal trauma to "finish the fight." Not unlike heart shot game running 50 yards.

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

 

[Sticky]

OK, what I'm trying to get to is the psychological shock that comes from one's own injury. I understand there are those "walking dead" that have pushed through phenomenal trauma to "finish the fight." Not unlike heart shot game running 50 yards.

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

Sometimes.
Yes.
Depends, can if the shock isn't too deep yet.

You see it a lot in a hot LZ or probably any other active hot zone.

 

[the1kidd03]

OK, what I'm trying to get to is the psychological shock that comes from one's own injury. I understand there are those "walking dead" that have pushed through phenomenal trauma to "finish the fight." Not unlike heart shot game running 50 yards.

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

Of course. All of the psychological shock can be "pushed" through depending on the person. Some people simply aren't "mentally tough" enough to handle situations though. Just as you're eluding to in this thread, your ability to overcome will be determined by your own "mental toughness." Will to survive, being decisive, and able to stay focused on the overall objective will all play huge factors.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

My question is whether this seemingly involuntary shock happens when there is a lull in the action? Thus can be pushed back by your own focus on something trying to hurt or kill you?

There's nothing "seemingly involuntary" about it . If a person loses enough blood , their body WILL go into shock , period , whether they like it or not .

There's three things that make every last one of us the same , we all breath , we all bleed and we're all gonna die .

We're all , fluid / air filled bags of bones .

Those things don't change no matter how "bad ass" anyone is or how much training they've had .

The other question is whether your natural drive to stay alive will bring you out of the midst of the "haze" of this psychological shock when necessary?

That depends on the person , the situation , the severity of the injury / wound , the training they've had , their fitness level and how "committed " they are to the task at hand and those around them .

Shock is a funny thing , people are funny also .

You read a textbook and think you've got it figured out , then you get on a scene and find someone who by the looks of things should be dead but is up walking around .

Point is , there's what the books say about how our bodies / we are supposed to react to injuries , then there's what really happens .

I'm not sure if there a way to predict how anyone will react emotionally / physiologically(within reason) to an injury .

 

[HardTargetFirearms]

Eventually, physiology wins the day. But the human mind is VERY powerful.

Train your mind and your body...and well...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs[/ame]

 

[esrice]

There is emotional shock and there is physiological shock.

I believe this is a very important distinction, and one that hasn't been specifically made in this thread yet.

So what are the differences?

Good thread Frame.

 

[the1kidd03]

I believe this is a very important distinction, and one that hasn't been specifically made in this thread yet.

So what are the differences?

Good thread Frame.

I'm sure there is someone here with more advanced medical training than my own, but I perceive the difference being that when your body is literally physically unable to perform functions necessary to continue the fight. Without a pre-existing adrenaline, heart rate, "fight or flight syndrome" boost already started, once you reach that point you will not be able to continue regardless. Those changes in the body will determine the breaking point of continuing the fight. A man under those bodily chemicals can maintain his attack for over 20 seconds after his heart has STOPPED. I haven't been injured nearly that severely, but I will attest to the fact that the majority of the time people give up the fight in their head LONG before they physically cannot continue. The same goes for strenuous physical exercise.

 

[bwframe]

I'm sure there is someone here with more advanced medical training than my own...

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your opinion.

I'm looking for many contributions here about a problem that I have experienced. Now if you don't mind, could you avoid posting your opinion of every other post? I fear that your domination of the thread might hinder other responses. Thanks again.