FFL app in jeopardy! Absurd...

[Booya]

Well it took awhile to get my business up and running, but I got it done! Small budget, constrained time, home based, but I did it. It's off the ground for now and I'll build as I go. I've been so excited about getting my FFL, establishing the business more and more, increasing sales, customers... Etc. So what do I do. I go through the steps, or so I thought.

App in - check, state paperwork done - check, city zoning/planning taken care of - check, ATF site visit and initial approval - check! Great right? So after almost 3 months, a bunch of hours, bunch of money I get the news yesterday that the future of my company lies in the hands of an elderly female stranger. THE ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT! Yup, I completely overlooked the neighborhood association! I spent some time speaking with her personally (via phone, she was about to head to a meeting. I wanted to talk with her before the ATF did) yesterday and she appears to have no clue at all what an online business is, and every mention of firearm sales leads to the same question, "where will you store hundreds of guns in your house?". After explaining that they will be order only until I move to a store front, I get the same question again.

There is to be a conversation amongst the board and a possible meeting. I have requested to be at both, but if they deny, so does the ATF. I may be jumping the gun here and feeling prematurely defensive, but I don't have a good feeling about this. Nothing is worse then knowing such a large part of your life can be so easily effected by a total stranger(s). This would have a huge impact on my business!

Lawyers, if the home owners association denies do I have an legal options? Our bylaws are not very encompassing, it's a small quiet neighborhood. If it doesn't go well I plan to appeal immediately, but I've already been asked if I'll be selling "assault weapons". I do not have a warm and fuzzy...

 

[mdeshon]

I am not sure but good luck. I hate neighborhood associations. But I would say if asked if you were selling "assault weaapons" I would say no Im selling hunting rifles

 

[Westside]

check your home owners association rules. See if there is a clause about home businesses. I know some say that you can not run a business out of a home in the neighborhood.

If the association has no rules at all on home based business then why do they have a say in weather or not you get your FFL?

 

[Booya]

I am not sure but good luck. I hate neighborhood associations. But I would say if asked if you were selling "assault weaapons" I would say no Im selling hunting rifles

Agreed! What is an "assault weapon"? If I attack you with scissors do they become assault scissors?

check your home owners association rules. See if there is a clause about home businesses. I know some say that you can not run a business out of a home in the neighborhood.

If the association has no rules at all on home based business then why do they have a say in weather or not you get your FFL?

Trust me I've combed them. It's semi confusing, they think by saying your home is for single family residence, that means it's not for a business. This will all be hashed out if/when necessary. It doesn't specifically say "No Business". I don't know why it has an effect on the FFL, ATF agent just said he needs to get approval.

 

[swilk]

Do you have an attorney? Might be worth finding one who has dealt with things of this nature and going in for a consultation.

If there is no legal ground for the HOA to tell you "no" and they try and do it anyway an experienced attorney should be able to help you through the process.

At worst it will cost you a few bucks.

 

[rotortech]

My HOA paperwork says No Businesses Shall Be Run Out Of The Home. People do it anyway but very low key. I agree that you need to see an attorney NOW. I suspect that unless the rules specifically prevent you from running a business, then you should be OK.

Good Luck

 

[Kedric]

I always knew I would never live in a place that had any of these asinine homeowner's associations.... this is just another reason why.

best of luck to you!

 

[Mosinowner]

We can only have a C&R ( unless you have the $ to buy a building ) in Dallas because you need a storefront to run a FFL out of. Dallas says you can't run one out of your house.

 

[LegatoRedrivers]

"where will you store hundreds of guns in your house?"

The same place I store them now?

 

[deanald2pt0]

Does anyone in your neighborhood run a daycare in their homes?

If there is no clause that specifically says you can't operate a business, then you might be able use that fact to establish a presidence that they haven't objected to other businesses in the neighborhood, and therefore are discriminating against you?

Of course, this could also backfire and get the daycare shutdown. Who knows, I'm no lawyer, it was just a thought.

 

[jve153]

id rather have hundreds of guns in my neighbors house than 20 some odd kids.

 

[octalman]

Are you going to have customers coming to your house to pick up merchandise? Unless you buddy up to the association, probably going to get a NO.

 

[indykid]

If you are doing it temporarily until your store front is completed, assuming it is no your basement, let them know that, and reinforce the fact that it is temporary.

 

[KG1]

HOA's are pretty anal about everything. Look at the big deal they always make about even raising a flag. I truly hope it works out in your favor but I myself would'nt be to optimistic about getting the nod from them over running a business out of a residence that has anything related to those "evil firearms"

 

[Sailor]

Does anybody sell anything off ebay or craigslist? Same thing. Business is business. Explain that you buy and sell old collectible guns, pieces of art and history.

 

[littletommy]

Why would anyone sign an agreement saying what you can and can't do in your own home? Are there not enough bull**** regulations to abide by without having to worry over them in your home? Not directed at the OP specifically, but I just don't understand the concept of empowering someone in your neighborhood to tell you what to do.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well it took awhile to get my business up and running, but I got it done! Small budget, constrained time, home based, but I did it. It's off the ground for now and I'll build as I go. I've been so excited about getting my FFL, establishing the business more and more, increasing sales, customers... Etc. So what do I do. I go through the steps, or so I thought.

App in - check, state paperwork done - check, city zoning/planning taken care of - check, ATF site visit and initial approval - check! Great right? So after almost 3 months, a bunch of hours, bunch of money I get the news yesterday that the future of my company lies in the hands of an elderly female stranger. THE ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT! Yup, I completely overlooked the neighborhood association! I spent some time speaking with her personally (via phone, she was about to head to a meeting. I wanted to talk with her before the ATF did) yesterday and she appears to have no clue at all what an online business is, and every mention of firearm sales leads to the same question, "where will you store hundreds of guns in your house?". After explaining that they will be order only until I move to a store front, I get the same question again.

There is to be a conversation amongst the board and a possible meeting. I have requested to be at both, but if they deny, so does the ATF. I may be jumping the gun here and feeling prematurely defensive, but I don't have a good feeling about this. Nothing is worse then knowing such a large part of your life can be so easily effected by a total stranger(s). This would have a huge impact on my business!

Lawyers, if the home owners association denies do I have an legal options? Our bylaws are not very encompassing, it's a small quiet neighborhood. If it doesn't go well I plan to appeal immediately, but I've already been asked if I'll be selling "assault weapons". I do not have a warm and fuzzy...

It doesn't strictly apply as they're not a governmental entity nor a political subdivision, however:

Chapter 11.1. Local Regulation of Firearms, Ammunition, and Firearm Accessories
Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC 3-5-2-38).
Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.
Sec. 4. This chapter may not be construed to prevent any of the following:
(1) A law enforcement agency of a political subdivision from enacting and enforcing regulations pertaining to firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories issued to or used by law enforcement officers in the course of their official duties.
(2) Subject to IC 34-28-7-2, an employer from regulating or prohibiting the employees of the employer from carrying firearms and ammunition in the course of the employee's official duties.
(3) A court or administrative law judge from hearing and resolving any case or controversy or issuing any opinion or order on a matter within the jurisdiction of the court or judge.
(4) The enactment or enforcement of generally applicable zoning or business ordinances that apply to firearms businesses to the same degree as other similar businesses. However, a provision of an ordinance that is designed or enforced to effectively restrict or prohibit the sale, purchase, transfer, manufacture, or display of firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories that is otherwise lawful under the laws of this state is void. A unit (as defined in IC 36-1-2-23) may not use the unit's planning and zoning powers under IC 36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within a prescribed distance of any other type of commercial property or of school property or other educational property.
...

Per #4, if the city/county allows a business such as an accountant to do taxes, a typist to type term papers, a bicycle repair shop, or a daycare to care for children, your business should be allowed, too.

When you go to your meetings, have plans (blueprints) drawn. Identify that you believe strongly in safe storage and would never leave firearms, especially those few present at any given time belonging to other people, out in the open, unsecured. Have visual aids: Drawings and floor plans, photos of the safe (show it nearly empty) and identify that you can and will obtain another if need be, prior to the move to the storefront.

Identify that the idea of "hundreds of firearms" is beyond the scope of your business in the present location and that while you may someday build your business to that size, you have neither the time nor energy to work your regular job while also working this business to build it to that degree.

I would suggest having a copy of the law with you, though make it clear you're not threatening them with it, you're only showing them that the city and county cannot regulate you in that manner. The unspoken message should be that they *should* not either.

Good luck!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jetmechG550]

Our HOA flat out told me there is nothing they can really do when it comes to covenants anyway. They can try and send you letters in hopes you will comply but they can't legally fine you and if they take you to court for something deemed a violation if you resolve it (which could simply mean moving something or taking it down) they are stuck holding the bag. Did you actually sign the document when you closed on your home? IANAL but I was doing some research to go to battle with ours and found they cannot even legally fine you for a violation of the covenants since they are not a government agency and cannot create "laws." Good luck, HOA's are one of the biggest scams going

 

[Fargo]

Our HOA flat out told me there is nothing they can really do when it comes to covenants anyway. They can try and send you letters in hopes you will comply but they can't legally fine you and if they take you to court for something deemed a violation if you resolve it (which could simply mean moving something or taking it down) they are stuck holding the bag. Did you actually sign the document when you closed on your home? IANAL but I was doing some research to go to battle with ours and found they cannot even legally fine you for a violation of the covenants since they are not a government agency and cannot create "laws." Good luck, HOA's are one of the biggest scams going

No, they don't fine you, they put a lien on your property for the breach of the agreement and you can end up getting your house sold out from under you.

I'd be careful with this.

OP, you may want to consult with an attorney prior to the meeting.

Best,

Joe

 

[KG1]

I think the point that is being overlooked here is that the ATF has stated that they would not give approval unless they get the thumbs up from the HOA.

So it does'nt matter if the HOA has the legal authority or not the ATF seems to be basing their decision to move forward in the process on whether the HOA approves or not.