Failure to Fire and DA/SA

[jvacierto]

Hello, I was at the range firing my new full sized Beretta PX4 Storm Type F in 9mm and was using cheap Tulammo from Walmart. I noticed there were 2 or 3 rounds that didn't fire upon the first strike of the firing pin when the gun was in single action mode, so I just pulled the trigger again (since it switched back to double action mode after the hammer drop) and the ammo fired.

My question is, was it okay to do this? My first gun was a double action revolver and my instinct was to just pull the trigger again on a failure to fire. So that's what I did and with the PX4 being DA/SA, I didn't think anything of the failure to fire.

 

[pudly]

It won't hurt the gun and isn't a huge worry for range ammo, but I'd still be a little concerned. Do you have that problem with any other brands? I'm wondering if it is just that brand of ammo or if your strikes are on the light side.

 

[Hoosier45]

I think Tula is known for having some hard primers? I would try some other brands of ammo. If you have the same issue regardless of brand, you may have some firing pin issues.

 

[dhw9am]

Tula

Won't use Tula. I have heard to many bad stories from people who have.
I know two people who have PX4's, and they have never had any issues.

 

[jwh20]

On a gun like the PX4 where you have SA/DA trigger, you can always pull the trigger and try again. As you noted, the round fired the next time, so you didn't up up with a misfire in your chamber. I _hate_ when that happens!

But I've never had much success with Tulammo. Their ammo is just "dirty" when you fire it and I never have liked the steel cases. I just think it's hard on the working of the gun. Most gun components that contact the case are steel. Steel is as hard as steel, so the gun will wear. Brass is much softer than steel. Even Blazer aluminum is ok as it's also softer than steel.

I'd try a better brand of ammo before you start thinking the PX4 is defective.

 

[indykid]

I hate to say it but I have had nothing but problems with Tula ammo.

As for the Beretta, I have a PX4 and I like the second strike availability. If the round doesn't fire on the second pull, that is when you go through the drill to chamber the next round, but it can't hurt the pistol and as you found, usually the second strike will set off the round.

I have found many rounds with high primers, where the first pull of the trigger just moves the primer forward to where it should have been, and the second trigger pull fires it. Junk ammo good for practice only.

 

[87iroc]

First round I put through my P290RS from Sig failed to fire. It was Tula. Pulled trigger again it went bang and never had another problem until a case stuck in the chamber after firing. Took a helluva lot of work to get it back out.

Its dirty and I won't go out of my way to buy it...but to keep shootin ghtese days if I can find it at Wally world I'd buy more.

 

[jvacierto]

Thanks everyone, the Tula ammo was the only cheap ammo I could find and I've read that other people have had failure to fire problems with it. My original post was more about whether pulling the trigger again for a 2nd strike was okay and it sounds like it is.

Being a relatively new handgunner, it was just a question I had because it seems like a lot of people out there recommend racking the slide to clear a round that won't fire. I understand the need to do that with a striker fired pistol (i.e. Glocks and similar pistols), but with the 2nd strike capability of a DA/SA pistol, why not take advantage of the double action pull after a failure to fire in single action mode?

 

[jgreiner]

I think Tula is known for having some hard primers? I would try some other brands of ammo. If you have the same issue regardless of brand, you may have some firing pin issues.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

 

[Hohn]

Steel is as hard as steel, so the gun will wear. Brass is much softer than steel. Even Blazer aluminum is ok as it's also softer than steel.

There's a good bit of misinformation packed into these short phrases! Let's set them straight.

First, steel is NOT "as hard as steel." There are THOUSANDS of different kinds of steel. Some grades of steel (so-called High Speed Steel) are actually used to machine other grades of steel and cut them to shape. Some grades of steel are nearly as hard as diamond. Other grades of annealed mild steel of low carbon content (say 1010, which is only 0.1% carbon) are pretty soft and easily worn. They are also easily bent and formed into shape, which can be desirable in several ways.

Similarly, there are thousands of different kinds of brass. Some grades of brass are actually harder than some soft grades of steel.

So much for the misinformation on hardness.



Wear is related to hardness, but not just to hardness. Tribologists have been studying the nature of metal-on-metal wear for a long time. How is it that some metals have much more tendency to gall than others? Why is stainless steel so bad about galling without lubrication while other steels of identical hardness have far better resistance to galling? Why do certain combinations of metals (steel on bronze) have such exceptional performance in wear resistance, dry or lubricated?

Brass case ammo wears your gun. Steel case ammo does. Aluminum case does. They all just wear it at different rates. The wear rate of brass is very low-- usually.


In my opinion, aluminum case ammo is the worst of all for gun wear. Why? Most aluminum case isn't painted or finished-- it's bare aluminum. As any welder will tell you, AL is extremely reactive and oxidizes almost instantly. Aluminum passivates by forming this oxide layer (just like stainless passivates with a Chromium oxide layer). This is also why plumber brush off the oxidation on the copper before they sweat some supply lines together.

Aluminum metal is soft, but aluminum OXIDE is not. Aluminum oxide is VERY hard-- it's the "ALOX" you'll see on the sandpaper box used as the most common abrasive in the world. No joke.

Each round of aluminum-case ammo your run through your gun is coated in very fine, extremely HARD abrasive because of the aluminum oxidation. If you're just trying to polish the extractor, then that's one thing. But if wear is a *bad* thing, I'd stay clear of aluminum cased ammo.


By my reckoning, steel is not as good as brass, but not nearly as bad as aluminum.

 

[indykid]

Thanks everyone, the Tula ammo was the only cheap ammo I could find and I've read that other people have had failure to fire problems with it. My original post was more about whether pulling the trigger again for a 2nd strike was okay and it sounds like it is.

Being a relatively new handgunner, it was just a question I had because it seems like a lot of people out there recommend racking the slide to clear a round that won't fire. I understand the need to do that with a striker fired pistol (i.e. Glocks and similar pistols), but with the 2nd strike capability of a DA/SA pistol, why not take advantage of the double action pull after a failure to fire in single action mode?

Just to restate that it is ok to keep pulling the trigger in double action mode, I practice dry firing my Berettas using snap caps, and it is nice to be able to pull the trigger over and over in DA mode knowing that I am getting better at smoothly pulling the trigger, as well as knowing that I am not hurting the firearm.

 

[jvacierto]

Just to restate that it is ok to keep pulling the trigger in double action mode, I practice dry firing my Berettas using snap caps, and it is nice to be able to pull the trigger over and over in DA mode knowing that I am getting better at smoothly pulling the trigger, as well as knowing that I am not hurting the firearm.

Thanks for the tip @indykid, I bought some snap caps myself earlier this week so I could do dry fire practice. I actually find the DA pull of the PX4 relatively easy compared to my first handgun, which was a .22lr Rossi R98 DA revolver. I also find the snap caps are great for practicing reloads and racking the slide to clear malfunctions other than FTF's.

 

[MorePowerWes]

The way I understand it, the PX4 can be a bit picky about what ammo it likes. Apparently yours doesn't like Tula. My Glock eats it like candy. But, then again, it's a Glock. They'll eat anything. You did nothing wrong by pulling the trigger again to fire the round (an option my Glock doesn't have) but I would find some ammo that fires reliably in your firearm. And yes, Tula uses berdan primers which can be "hard". Stick with boxer primed, domestic ammo and you should be fine.

 

[brute69]

Might have the gun checked, fired a couple hundred rounds of the cheap stuff through my da/sa and never had a ftf.