Evangelicals Hijack Education In Texas (And Beyond)

[smoking357]

I'm curious if you even know where the 6,000 year old earth idea comes from and where there error actually is.

When someone is that many orders of magnitude in error, I have little desire to check their work.

I'm glad to see you write that most Evangelicals believe in Evolution.

I wonder if Jesus thinks the military sucks, too.

You tell me, Reverend.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I'm curious if you even know where the 6,000 year old earth idea comes from and where there error actually is.

Since the troll won't answer, I will. Two reasons.

First, because people erroneously apply the seven days literally, rather than conceptually. Early man had no concept of years, centuries, millenia, etc, so the easiest way for them to understand it was seven days. If you read Genesis and think of the seven days as seven ages of unknown duration, it makes perfect sense.

Second, people attempt to draw a timeline by analyzing all the begetting and begotting throughout the Bible, and not taking into consideration that there are gaps in the timeline.

Most of the 6K year proponents are kinda loopy of you ask me. We found out that the Earth does revolve around the sun, even though the church of old declared it blasphemy to posit so. We also determined the world is not flat, that atoms are not made up of just 3 types of particles, Bigfoot is still a myth, and that a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to disprove the existance of God primarily by telling believers we are idiots. Curious.

 

[Roadie]

Please:

The Taylor Site "Man Tracks"

We have to realize that a belief in Creationism deeply hurts gun owners.

Refer to this thread: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...90956-just_how_many_gun_owners_are_there.html

As we try to attract new shooters, we will scare them away if they know that they will be in the company of Creationists. Persons of intellect, and overwhelming numbers of urban residents, are college educated, viewers of the Discovery and Science channels, and they will think anyone a kook who thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old or that animals cannot evolve.

It's good to have the occasional religious discussion amongst gun owners if only to spread the Gospel of what gun owners need to believe if they want this movement to grow.

So, Creationists are not "persons of intellect"? So, I guess that would come as a surprise to those Scientists that espouse that belief, eh?

You really should do some research on a subject before you spout off as an expert. Apparently you are not aware that not all Creationists are "young earth Creationists", nor do all of them believe in a Christian version of God. Some believe in Intelligent Design, and yes, again, these are SCIENTISTS.

Your bigotry against Christians is astounding. If someone said the things you say about Christians, about Muslims, or blacks, etc etc you would probably be the first to raise the cry of Intolerance, but you see no problem with implying that Creationists, which includes many Christians, are of low intellect, uneducated, and watch only Nascar, instead of Discovery.

Oh, and BTW, you are also lumping macro and micro evolution into one lump sum when you say Creationists believe "that animals cannot evolve."

Evolution as a process, and as the origin of human beings, is two completely separate concepts.

One would think an enlightened, educated person such as yourself, would have been aware of this.

 

[PatriotPride]

Christianity does not believe in Creationism and hasn't for a few hundred years. Creationism is anti-Logic, a dangerous way to enslave the mind of man. It's the fallacy of affirming the consequent allowed to widely infect the common mind.



Any man who believes the Earth is 6,000 years old believes an indefensible thing.



I would certainly like to see what peer review was involved.



It is absolutely not true that the Earth is 6,000 years old, and you shouldn't be allowed to hurt gun owners by making us appear the people who would believe such a thing. Asserting such an incorrect cosmological age is outright ignorance and wilful disregard of fact.

You don't simply get to believe something so obviously wrong is correct and hide it behind "belief."

If it's merely belief, it has no place being mentioned or respected in school textbooks. If all you have is "belief," Creationism must be given no regard, whatsoever, in any public writing.

That's your opinion, and while I can't say that I respect you or it, you are free to post whatever you are inclined to.
Many, many things that we "believe" in are indefensible. Evolution is a great example.
I'm sure you would. What exactly are you getting at with this statement?
Well now, the gloves are finally off. It's my opinion that YOU should not be allowed to tarnish the image of gun-owners. You spew hateful, unintelligible rhetoric, and then tell me that I should not be allowed to represent gun-owners. Them's fighting words son.
You don't simply get to believe something so obviously wrong is correct and hide it behind "belief."

"If it's merely belief, it has no place being mentioned or respected in school textbooks. If all you have is "belief," Creationism must be given no regard, whatsoever, in any public writing"

You do understand that this would effectively bar much of what is passed around as science these days? You have the belief that the theory of Evolution is true. So you agree that it has no place in the classroom. For once we would be in agreement.

As always, I stand in amazement at your posts.

 

[TopDog]

This story just points up the main reason we need separation of church and state at all levels. When evangelicals get their paws on things they know nothing about they immediately go about rewriting history to suit their own warped view points.The sad thing is that these text books are used by many states outside of Texas, probably even in Indiana. The kids get robbed of a real education on a daily basis and these people want to make it worse. Leftists do a bad enough job, but the far right evangelicals are even worse.

via The Guardian

Which is exactly what those in power have done in the last 20 - 30 years during the decline of our educational system. Its not just a matter of separation of church and state, far from it. Its a matter of getting corruption out of government. Getting corruption out of the education system. Separation of church and state is but one very small part of the distraction.

Those in power write the history. Then those that write history control history.

 

[bigg cheese]

I'm not in the mood for a big drawn-out argument (but I might be later ), so I'll be brief .

What the Bible says metaphorically, is to be taken as such.

What the Bible says literally, is to be taken as such.

Six days is six days. There are actual grammatical differences with writing in the Bible in that distinguish what is a metaphor (parable) and what is literal.

I don't think it's an issue of salvation (so I can still call you brother), but rather believing whether or not God can do as He said He did.

I'd like to direct your attention to DrDino.com, where you can see the entire lectures that present the premise for Creation, what would be required, and a reasonable defense. I agree with nearly all of it.

Dr. Kent Hovind has debated in public against prominent evolutionists, the entirety of which can be viewed online.

I highly recommend giving them a view before simply saying "i'm not interested." I've sat through evolutionistic lectures and have even debated some of my college professors. I'm not saying you will be convinced. You'll only be convinced if you have an active desire to learn. At best, what I've read so far are shots over each others' bows -- hardly a debate or discussion.

 

[smoking357]

Your bigotry against Christians is astounding.

Quit being arrogant. Christianity has no tension with science, and quit pretending to speak for Christianity which does not, in any way, share your opinion.

American Evangelicalism, a set of ecclesiastical communities not in communion with Christianity, has some ideas not held by the Church in 300 years.

 

[PatriotPride]

Quit being deliberately provacative. Two sides to that coin.

 

[smoking357]

You have the belief that the theory of Evolution is true.

Straw man.

Regardless of whether Evolution is true or completely accurate, Creationism is completely inaccurate.

American Evangelical Creationism is believed by a very small percentage of the world's population and by almost nobody in urban areas or on college campuses.

It is distressing and disturbing to see it defended here to such a great extent.

What's really terrifying is that I could be dealing with someone in an apparently rational transaction though, unknown to me, that person could hold a deep belief that certain ancient Jewish myths are to be taken as literally true. We never know just how close we come to someone who is truly scary.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

What's really terrifying is that I could be dealing with someone in an apparently rational transaction though, unknown to me, that person could hold a deep belief that certain ancient Jewish myths are to be taken as literally true.

Why do you hate old Jews?

 

[Roadie]

Quit being arrogant. Christianity has no tension with science, and quit pretending to speak for Christianity which does not, in any way, share your opinion.

American Evangelicalism, a set of ecclesiastical communities not in communion with Christianity, has some ideas not held by the Church in 300 years.

Wait, I'M being arrogant? Pot, meet kettle.

So now you speak for all of Christianity too!? Wow, you must really think highly of yourself.

 

[Roadie]

Isn't it ironic that this "person" has "Minding My Own Business" as their location? oy

 

[smoking357]

Why do you hate old Jews?

Good one. I have to run, so I don't have time to pin down just which fallacy that is, but we'll get to it, later.

What's really interesting is that American Evangelical Christians believe in ancient Jewish myths far more literally than do the Jews.

 

[smoking357]

Isn't it ironic that this "person" has "Minding My Own Business" as their location? oy

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point of the thread is that you should keep your religion out of my textbooks.

Mind your own business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kingnereli]

Christianity does not believe in Creationism and hasn't for a few hundred years. Creationism is anti-Logic, a dangerous way to enslave the mind of man. It's the fallacy of affirming the consequent allowed to widely infect the common mind.

Do we have a guy pulls out his own hair at such internet nonsense emoticon? This will have to do.

Since the troll won't answer, I will. Two reasons.

First, because people erroneously apply the seven days literally, rather than conceptually. Early man had no concept of years, centuries, millenia, etc, so the easiest way for them to understand it was seven days. If you read Genesis and think of the seven days as seven ages of unknown duration, it makes perfect sense.

Second, people attempt to draw a timeline by analyzing all the begetting and begotting throughout the Bible, and not taking into consideration that there are gaps in the timeline.

Most of the 6K year proponents are kinda loopy of you ask me. We found out that the Earth does revolve around the sun, even though the church of old declared it blasphemy to posit so. We also determined the world is not flat, that atoms are not made up of just 3 types of particles, Bigfoot is still a myth, and that a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to disprove the existance of God primarily by telling believers we are idiots. Curious.

Very good. Although I'm a 24 hour guy, but don't think that precludes an old earth. We also don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden. The bible tells the story in like three chapters, but the actual timeline could have been. Well, it could have been anything.

When someone is that many orders of magnitude in error, I have little desire to check their work.

So we can add lazy and apathetic to your repertoire.

I'm glad to see you write that most Evangelicals believe in Evolution.

Theistic evolution is barely a fringe belief among evangelicals. Your statement shows you don't even know that you have no idea what you are talking about. This whole conversation would be a lot different if you were actually somewhat informed about the beliefs of those you disagree with. We are spending more time correcting your blatant errors then debating the actual topic of this thread. You would be wise to consider that.

You tell me, Reverend.

The answer is no.

 

[Roadie]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point of the thread is that you should keep your religion out of my textbooks.

Mind your own business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then keep your bigotry against Christians out of my gun ownership!

Mind your own business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Roadie]

Actually, keep your bigotry against Christians and Creationists out of here period.

You could have stated your opinion without insulting other members of this board, but chose not to, thereby making your arguments questionable, at best.

Do some research on the subject you CLAIM to know so much about, then come back when you can handle a factual debate, instead of your normal textual diarrhea.

 

[Garb]

As we try to attract new shooters, we will scare them away if they know that they will be in the company of Creationists. Persons of intellect, and overwhelming numbers of urban residents, are college educated, viewers of the Discovery and Science channels, and they will think anyone a kook who thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old or that animals cannot evolve.

It's good to have the occasional religious discussion amongst gun owners if only to spread the Gospel of what gun owners need to believe if they want this movement to grow.

Persons of intellect? Do you know how many well educated and intellectual people are or were Christians? Do you want a list? Also, not all Christians buy into the idea that the earth is 6,000 years old, or that evolution within a species doesn't happen, so you are generalizing. I don't think you are qualified to tell other gun owners what they "need to believe" for gun ownership to grow. Just believe what you want, and a friendly debate is fine, but you just like to cause problems.

 

[irishfan]

Actually, keep your bigotry against Christians and Creationists out of here period.

You are nothing but a bigoted troll, trying to stir the pot. You have ignored any facts posted, you are either ignoring your own bigotry, or intentionally being a bigot.

You could have stated your opinion without insulting other members of this board, but chose not to, thereby making your arguments questionable, at best.

Do some research on the subject you CLAIM to know so much about, then come back when you can handle a factual debate, instead of your normal textual diarrhea.

You and others realize that this will continue until you all stop replying to a certain poster and his attempts to get you all fired up?(which worked) I do believe that there should not be a direct connection between church and state but we are a country that was founded on godly principles. Also, I do believe it was those principles that helped us succeed for so long but the lack of principles and morals is the root cause of our destruction of a country and liberty.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

How about a combination of science and religion?

In his article "What Would Newton Do?", Intelligent Design advocate Phillip E. Johnson summarizes Schroeder's article "The Age of the Universe":

Schroeder starts by noting that the generations of humans starting with Adam and Eve adds up to 5757 years. The biblical "clock" for this purpose starts after the initial six days, a mysterious preliminary period which ancient commentators said contains "all the secrets and ages of the universe." Before Adam, and especially before the creation of the earth, the Bible speaks of time from the viewpoint of the universe as a whole, which Schroeder interprets to mean at the moment of "quark confinement," when stable matter formed from energy early in the first second of the big bang.

Relativity theory teaches that time passes much more slowly in conditions of great gravitational pressure than it does on earth. Using these familiar principles, Schroeder calculates that a period of six days under the conditions of quark confinement, when the universe was approximately a million million times smaller and hotter than it is today, is equal to fifteen billion years of earth time. Genesis and modern physics are reconciled.

Gerald Schroeder at AllExperts