esrice goes to Camden, TN to train with Tactical Response

[HICKMAN]

You sure you don't want to change dates?

you guys gotta go to one he's teaching, else what's the point except for staying in the team room? LOL Terre Haute is a LOT closer to get a non-JY class.

 

[bwframe]

psst, he's a little busy overseas at the moment

Of course he is...

 

[Caleb]

Of course he is...

You know, being deployed and all...

 

[bwframe]

You know, being deployed and all...

I am sure he is serving us well. As well, I am sure he will be missed in Camden.

 

[esrice]

UPDATE

One of the things Tactical Response recommends to new students is that they read Col. Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense. I've also heard Yeager himself mention Andy Stanford's Surgical Speed Shooting on several different occasions. Having an unused $25 Amazon.com gift card I went ahead and bought them, along with another I've been wanting to read. After using the gift card I paid about $6 shipped.

Cooper's book is more like a published pamphlet and I read it in just one sitting. The entire thing is mindset focused and it covers the overarching principles that any human needs to internalize to effectively defend himself, regardless of the weapon wielded. I would recommend it to any serious student of defense.

I'm also about a third of the way through Surgical Speed Shooting. The first section is basically a lead-up to the other two. He gives some history and background of pistolcraft and how it has evolved. While you can tell the author has a great respect for Col. Cooper, he definitely isn't a fan of those who have followed him down the Weaver trail. I don't think I realized just how many schools were spawned through API/Gunsite. The list of big-name instructors went on and on. So far so good and I look forward to getting into the meat of the text.

Just 44 more days til Camden!

 

[HICKMAN]

Surprised you guys didn't move the date to one he's teaching.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Surprised you guys didn't move the date to one he's teaching.

Well said, as this is VERY much a DATE!

 

[Que]

Surprised you guys didn't move the date to one he's teaching.

I'm looking for training and not star gazing. I think the training was always the focus. I hope to get a video with Yeager since I've never met him, though.

Well said, as this is VERY much a DATE!

You should be working instead of surfing INGO. Isn't your last patient still wating on you to fix your mistake?

 

[esrice]

Surprised you guys didn't move the date to one he's teaching.

Didn't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth, as we were already signed up for the April class when he made that announcement.

 

[HICKMAN]

I'm looking for training and not star gazing. I think the training was always the focus.

LOL, then why didn't you just take the training in Terre Haute when they come up?

 

[Que]

LOL, then why didn't you just take the training in Terre Haute when they come up?

That wasn't offered to me.

 

[HICKMAN]

That wasn't offered to me.

oooh, I thought you were a paying customer. My bad.

 

[Que]

oooh, I thought you were a paying customer. My bad.

He saw one of the spoof videos, thought it was funny and offered me a free class.

 

[HICKMAN]

He saw one of the spoof videos, thought it was funny and offered me a free class.

lol, that is awesome.

I'm going to get to Fighting Pistol this year.

Glad the hooplah died down, I should have known it would have.

Even dumber is I just scrolled up this thread... we already had this conversation

 

[cedartop]

UPDATE

One of the things Tactical Response recommends to new students is that they read Col. Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense. I've also heard Yeager himself mention Andy Stanford's Surgical Speed Shooting on several different occasions. Having an unused $25 Amazon.com gift card I went ahead and bought them, along with another I've been wanting to read. After using the gift card I paid about $6 shipped.

Cooper's book is more like a published pamphlet and I read it in just one sitting. The entire thing is mindset focused and it covers the overarching principles that any human needs to internalize to effectively defend himself, regardless of the weapon wielded. I would recommend it to any serious student of defense.

I'm also about a third of the way through Surgical Speed Shooting. The first section is basically a lead-up to the other two. He gives some history and background of pistolcraft and how it has evolved. While you can tell the author has a great respect for Col. Cooper, he definitely isn't a fan of those who have followed him down the Weaver trail. I don't think I realized just how many schools were spawned through API/Gunsite. The list of big-name instructors went on and on. So far so good and I look forward to getting into the meat of the text.

Just 44 more days til Camden!

Two of those books are good, and fun to read. DeBeckers on the other hand I had to choke down. There is some good info there, but he is rabidly anti-gun.

 

[esrice]

DeBeckers on the other hand I had to choke down. There is some good info there, but he is rabidly anti-gun.

Already understood. I was admonished to read it "with a black sharpie on hand".

 

[esrice]

I'm also about a third of the way through Surgical Speed Shooting. The first section is basically a lead-up to the other two. He gives some history and background of pistolcraft and how it has evolved. While you can tell the author has a great respect for Col. Cooper, he definitely isn't a fan of those who have followed him down the Weaver trail. I don't think I realized just how many schools were spawned through API/Gunsite. The list of big-name instructors went on and on. So far so good and I look forward to getting into the meat of the text.

Ok so I finished the book.

Surgical Speed Shooting: How To Achieve High-Speed Marksmanship In A Gunfight: Andy Stanford: 9781581601435: Amazon.com: Books


This isn't meant to be a full review but I did want to share a few observations, in no particular order.

Those familiar with James Yeager's YouTube videos know that while he advocates a slightly different method for unloading a handgun, he has never given a real answer as to why he does it that way. His method is:

Lock the slide to the rear (thereby ejecting a live round). Remove the magazine.
​

This is backwards from the way most instructors I'm familiar with teach it.

Mr. Stanford touches on this method. His reasoning for this reversal has to do with muscle memory as it relates to specific actions. Because locking the slide to the rear and ripping a magazine from the well is part of the procedure for reducing a double-feed malfunction, he prefers to also unload administratively in the same order. YMMV but this is the first time I've heard an explanation on the this reversal.

Its for the same reasoning that he is also a fan of non-diagnostic malfunction clearance, including the ejecting of a live round during proactive reloads (or any time a magazine is inserted).

With a name like "Surgical Speed Shooting" I was expecting more direct focus on techniques or tips for shooting tighter and faster. That wasn't exactly the case. The topics covered were much broader. There was nothing groundbreaking or outside the realm of what I've already been exposed to. That's not a bad thing-- I was just expecting something a bit different. At any rate I always like getting another take on the subject of shooting combatively.

The book itself is presently clearly and even includes some pictures to help demonstrate the explained methods. While I don't personally utilize some of the methods presented I didn't find any major issues with them. The advice and techniques were solid.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend this book to someone who has already been exposed to several different firearms training schools, unless they just wanted to get another trainer's take on the matter. It would, however, be a great primer to someone who is about to take their first defensive pistol course and wanted to get a leg up on the pile. If you are unfamiliar with shooting from retention, position "SUL", or any of the fundamentals of shooting, the book would be a great first step.

 

[Shay]

Keep in mind that SSS is now 12 years old. When it was published it was a good, consolidated primer on building a grip that supports near-cyclic rate shooting. Andy also taught a SSS class that was the practical application of the techniques in the book.

 

[esrice]

Keep in mind that SSS is now 12 years old.

Yeah I can certainly understand how the principles covered in the book at that time would've ruffled some feathers. I think it's telling that here we are 12 years later and most of the material is now widely accepted.

 

[David Rose]

It's good to go back and read the books that laid the foundation for what is taken for granted today. They give a lot more of the why's behind the techniques. The people who never learn why a technique is used and what for jump from idea to idea without ever really learning or mastering any of them.

The GOF book cracks me up because the guy sell armed security to rich people and tells his readers they dot need guns. If you can ignore that slightly annoying fact he does put out some good info on how to think about safety.

Cooper's book is good to revisit every few years. I've been checking it out from the ACPL every few years since 92-93 I should probably buy a copy one of these days. (yes that is 20 years and yes that would make me about 12 or 13 the first time I checked it out, I was weird kid)