Don't leave home without it

[actaeon277]

Scary situation. Honestly though, legally wise if he had ended up pulling the trigger on the guy. It probably wouldn't have looked to well in his favor.

Not that I think that is okay, just the way the world seems to be. Protecting one persons life, yours comes under threat. I see where the situation could be avoided, but we all know that isn't right. To just watch that, and shrug it off like it never happened.

You are allowed to prevent a forcible felony.
Getting a license plate number and following it is not initiating a crime.
If you rob a house, and shoot someone to protect yourself, you initiated the crime.
In this case, the BG committed assault or battery (whatever). He then pointed a firearm at you.

If the BG is close enough, duck down and use a 4000 pound projectile.

 

[grahamsy2k]

If the Bad gay had shot at your son, then your sun shoot back and killed him, what would have happened then legally?

If the BG is close enough, duck down and use a 4000 pound projectile.

Thats what I like to drive a truck with a V8 in it.

 

[Mark 1911]

Amazing that you can't get through on 911 - I thought that's why 911 was established in the first place!

Glad your son tried to help and glad he is OK. Hopefully the woman gets some justice and has the sense to walk away from the goon.

 

[aaron580]

So in a situation like this, if the son was able to get over to the station as the man was beating the woman, could you unholster the gun and hold him until police arrive?

 

[KW730]

So in a situation like this, if the son was able to get over to the station as the man was beating the woman, could you unholster the gun and hold him until police arrive?

I don't believe battery is a felony, so no.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't believe battery is a felony, so no.

Indiana Code 35-41-3
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.
(b) As used in this section, "public servant" means a person described in IC 35-41-1-17, IC 35-31.5-2-129, or IC 35-31.5-2-185.
(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

Indiana Code 35-42-2
Battery
Sec. 1. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally touches another person in a rude, insolent, or angry manner commits battery, a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is:
(1) a Class A misdemeanor if:
(A) it results in bodily injury to any other person;
(B) it is committed against a law enforcement officer or against a person summoned and directed by the officer while the officer is engaged in the execution of the officer's official duty;
(C) it is committed against an employee of a penal facility or a juvenile detention facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-71) while the employee is engaged in the execution of the employee's official duty;
(D) it is committed against a firefighter (as defined in IC 9-18-34-1) while the firefighter is engaged in the execution of the firefighter's official duty;
(E) it is committed against a community policing volunteer:
(i) while the volunteer is performing the duties described in IC 35-31.5-2-49; or
(ii) because the person is a community policing volunteer; or
(F) it is committed against the state chemist or the state chemist's agent while the state chemist or the state chemist's agent is performing a duty under IC 15-16-5;
(2) a Class D felony if it results in bodily injury to:
(A) a law enforcement officer or a person summoned and directed by a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in the execution of the officer's official duty;
(B) a person less than fourteen (14) years of age and is committed by a person at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(C) a person of any age who has a mental or physical disability and is committed by a person having the care of the person with a mental or physical disability, whether the care is assumed voluntarily or because of a legal obligation;
(D) the other person and the person who commits the battery was previously convicted of a battery in which the victim was the other person;
(E) an endangered adult (as defined in IC 12-10-3-2);
(F) an employee of the department of correction while the employee is engaged in the execution of the employee's official duty;

 

[ModernGunner]

Scary situation. Honestly though, legally wise if he had ended up pulling the trigger on the guy. It probably wouldn't have looked to well in his favor...

Absolute fallacy, sorry.

 

[rbMPSH12]

Glad to hear he's ok. +1 for having the guts to try to stop it and get the cops there. It's unfortunate he couldn't get through or get the plate #.

Just out of curiosity, if he had had a wife and kids in the car with him when he came upon the guy beating the woman, do you think he should have responded differently? If so, how? There are a lot of important variables to think about when we ponder scenarios like this and how we would respond in such a situation. My first responsibility is to protect my wife and son, and getting a gun pulled on them while in the car is not something I want to unnecessarily risk. However, I do think trying to help in some way is the right thing to do. So it's a difficult scenario in my mind. Maybe I'd try to get the plate and call 911 but if I couldn't get through or couldn't see the plate, maybe leave it at that and report what I did see and where. Maybe they could get surveillance footage or something from the gas station.

 

[KW730]

Indiana Code 35-41-3
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.
(b) As used in this section, "public servant" means a person described in IC 35-41-1-17, IC 35-31.5-2-129, or IC 35-31.5-2-185.
(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

Indiana Code 35-42-2
Battery
Sec. 1. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally touches another person in a rude, insolent, or angry manner commits battery, a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is:
(1) a Class A misdemeanor if:
(A) it results in bodily injury to any other person;
(B) it is committed against a law enforcement officer or against a person summoned and directed by the officer while the officer is engaged in the execution of the officer's official duty;
(C) it is committed against an employee of a penal facility or a juvenile detention facility (as defined in IC 31-9-2-71) while the employee is engaged in the execution of the employee's official duty;
(D) it is committed against a firefighter (as defined in IC 9-18-34-1) while the firefighter is engaged in the execution of the firefighter's official duty;
(E) it is committed against a community policing volunteer:
(i) while the volunteer is performing the duties described in IC 35-31.5-2-49; or
(ii) because the person is a community policing volunteer; or
(F) it is committed against the state chemist or the state chemist's agent while the state chemist or the state chemist's agent is performing a duty under IC 15-16-5;
(2) a Class D felony if it results in bodily injury to:
(A) a law enforcement officer or a person summoned and directed by a law enforcement officer while the officer is engaged in the execution of the officer's official duty;
(B) a person less than fourteen (14) years of age and is committed by a person at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(C) a person of any age who has a mental or physical disability and is committed by a person having the care of the person with a mental or physical disability, whether the care is assumed voluntarily or because of a legal obligation;
(D) the other person and the person who commits the battery was previously convicted of a battery in which the victim was the other person;
(E) an endangered adult (as defined in IC 12-10-3-2);
(F) an employee of the department of correction while the employee is engaged in the execution of the employee's official duty;

So in this case, drawing down on the guy at the service station would not have been legally justifiable.

 

[actaeon277]

So in this case, drawing down on the guy at the service station would not have been legally justifiable.

How do you figure?

(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person

 

[rnmcguire]

My brother has a wrangler and he bought a nice safe that bolts under the driver seat. I think it uses the mounting bolts from the seat. It's good for ease secure access.

 

[KW730]

How do you figure?

(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person

Because pointing a firearm at someone is not reasonable force, it is lethal force. Reasonable force would be combat.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Glad your boy is OK. He did not freeze and you should be very proud of that.

 

[rjc2rjc]

(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

The way I read it. It says deadly force is justified in a situation like what was discribed.

 

[ziggy]

Personal combat might be a proper response if the responder is much larger and stronger than the BG. However, I think drawing a gun would be reasonable considering the circumstances described. The assault and battery sounds like it could reasonably be considered aggravated assault which is a felony, and most certainly kidnapping is a felony.
I think your son did the right thing and made good decisions in a stressful situation.

 

[beachhead40]

Police show up when the crime is done.

 

[ziggy]

rbMPSH12, good point about perhaps responding differently if you have a wife and children in the car with you. What anyone will do or should do always depends on ALL of the facts and circumstances. What if the apparent BG was trying to get his sister away from a drug dealer or a pimp? In general, it is best to be cautious and try to find out what is happening first and draw the firearm as a last resort. At least that is my thinking...

 

[giovani]

I think he would have faired better with a jeep as a weapon, rather than jumping out and into a gun fight

 

[KW730]

(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

The way I read it. It says deadly force is justified in a situation like what was discribed.

I read it the same. I was mistaken.

 

[jbombelli]

Don't leave home without it? I don't even STAY home without it! You just never know when you're going to need it, and if/when you DO need it, you're going to need it RIGHT NOW!!!

I'm glad your kid is okay, and I'm glad he tried. He did what he could.