Donald Trump Quietly Helped Marine Whom Obama Ignored

[BugI02]

Just what do you think "avoided the draft" means, kept the windows closed?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just what do you think "avoided the draft" means, kept the windows closed?

Again missing the relevance. Anybody, besides Bug, care to explain the application of the above?

 

[Que]

Here's a further list of people who don't deserve any service member's vote, then. And this is just the Republicans ( note a few on the list served with honor )

I looked at your list and I don't see any who are running for President or any seat in Virginia (where I'm registered to vote).

 

[BugI02]

Here's a further list of people who don't deserve any service member's vote, then. And this is just the Republicans ( note a few on the list served with honor )

From: Who served?



Prominent Republicans

• Representative Patrick McHenry, R-NC - did not serve. Saw fit to endanger American troops' lives after a visit to Iraq by violating operational security and helping militias target their mortar attacks on the Green Zone.
• Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (1)
• Senate Assistant Minority Leader Trent Lott, R-MI - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Senate Republican Conference Chairman Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve.
• Senate Republican Conference Vice Chair John Cornyn, R-TX - did not serve.
• National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair John Ensign, R-NV - did not serve.
• House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-OH - did not serve.
• House Minority Whip Roy Blunt, R-MO - did not serve.
• House Republican Conerence Chair Adam Putnam, R-FL - did not serve.
• House Republican Policy Committee Thaddeus McCotter, R-MI - did not serve.
• National Republican Congressional Committee Chair Tom Cole, R-OK - did not serve.
• Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani - did not serve.
• Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney - did not serve in the military but did serve the Mormon Church on a 30-month mission to France.
• Former Senator Fred Thompson - did not serve.
• Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so in 2000? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him.
  
  

  ​

• Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve (1). "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
• Former House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
• Former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
• Rick Santorum, R-PA, formerly third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
• George Felix Allen, former Republican Senator from Virginia - a supporter of Nixon and the Vietnam war, did not serve. (1)
• Former Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.

• GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
• VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1)
• Former Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
• Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)
• Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a Republican.
• Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)
• Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
• "B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
• Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments

• Congressman Ron Paul - active duty flight surgeon from 1963-65; Air National Guard from 1965-68. (link)
• Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php
• Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. U.S. Senate: 404 Error Page
• Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations Recently entered plea bargain on felony charges of bribery, etc. etc.
• Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
• Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...")
• Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.

Highlighted some of the salient parts for you in red

I interpret 'did not serve' to mean they made no effort to volunteer for military service

I interpret 'avoided the draft' to mean the individual actively sought out ways to avoid being drafted and serving in the military

 

[oldpink]

Again missing the relevance. Anybody, besides Bug, care to explain the application of the above?

Interesting how Barry O, who not only was likewise somehow not drafted, but started his political career in the living room of Bill Ayers, one time leader of the Weather Underground, a domestic terrorist organization that (among many other things) bombed the U.S. Capitol and State Department buildings.
Oh, did I forget to mention the WE members who also took part in a Brinks truck armed robbery in which police officer Waverly Brown was killed?
Or how about the Haymarket Police Memorial Bombing, right there in Sweet Home Chicago?
Or how about that bombing of the police headquarters in NYC on June 9, 1970?

Obviously, Barry O was too young to have been involved with the above (a mere sampling of their works), but surely he was educated enough and sufficiently mindful of the law (he is constantly touted as a "Harvard constitutional law scholar") to have avoided kicking off his entrance into the political sphere in the very residence of a domestic terrorist.
Now, maybe I'm just totally biased (as if someone who originally put Trump in the lower half of preferences is all that biased) or naive here, but not serving in Vietnam doesn't begin to compare with associating even remotely with an unrepentant (""I wish I had done more") domestic terrorist, a terrorist who was primarily motivated at the time by opposition to that same war in Vietnam.

 

[BugI02]

I looked at your list and I don't see any who are running for President or any seat in Virginia (where I'm registered to vote).

No one who came of age after 1973 could be a draft dodger. They could only decline the opportunity to serve

I believe Mr Johnson and Mr Weld are running in your state and do not seem to have military service on their resumes

 

[BADWOLF]

You sure seem to be on this execution kick recently. How about a lil habeas corpus first?
Just out of curiosity, should the president call every time an American is locked up abroad?

How about diplomatic immunity for all Americans abroad, were all equal...... Right?

 

[BADWOLF]

Or diplomatic immunity for no Americans abroad

 

[Kutnupe14]

How about diplomatic immunity for all Americans abroad, were all equal...... Right?

Huh? You think Americans abroad should have diplomatic immunity?

 

[BADWOLF]

Huh? You think Americans abroad should have diplomatic immunity?

Or no one should..... No matter your post or position... You break the law where ever you are and get cought your on your own.....

 

[Que]

I don't care about anyone else except the person who is being offered up as some kind of Saint for giving a Marine some money. If it doesn't matter, that's fine, but he can't buy my vote.

 

[BADWOLF]

Moral of the story, be a good American citizen when visiting abroad, and show those heathens that were not arrogant Americans and can respect other countries laws when visiting

 

[IndyDave1776]

Interesting how Barry O, who not only was likewise somehow not drafted, but started his political career in the living room of Bill Ayers, one time leader of the Weather Underground, a domestic terrorist organization that (among many other things) bombed the U.S. Capitol and State Department buildings.
Oh, did I forget to mention the WE members who also took part in a Brinks truck armed robbery in which police officer Waverly Brown was killed?
Or how about the Haymarket Police Memorial Bombing, right there in Sweet Home Chicago?
Or how about that bombing of the police headquarters in NYC on June 9, 1970?

Obviously, Barry O was too young to have been involved with the above (a mere sampling of their works), but surely he was educated enough and sufficiently mindful of the law (he is constantly touted as a "Harvard constitutional law scholar") to have avoided kicking off his entrance into the political sphere in the very residence of a domestic terrorist.
Now, maybe I'm just totally biased (as if someone who originally put Trump in the lower half of preferences is all that biased) or naive here, but not serving in Vietnam doesn't begin to compare with associating even remotely with an unrepentant (""I wish I had done more") domestic terrorist, a terrorist who was primarily motivated at the time by opposition to that same war in Vietnam.

 

[Que]

When my children were very young, they would do things that were not acceptable in our home. Sometimes they would say, "well, 'Robert' did it too" or something similar. We always taught them to never use someone else's negative example as permission to ignore our standard. Today, it seems like we have a country full of children who complain about everything being wrong, but as soon as "they" do it, it's okay for everyone to ignore the standard.

Trump is a draft dodger who now talks about how much he loves the military and how he wants to make it stronger. Why does it matter what other Presidents did if the standard is draft dodging is not acceptable? This does not mean that others should not vote for him or he shouldn't be elected. I just believe that on this issue, he is not deserving of positive consideration, just like any other draft dodger. If he were the type of man to apologize, I would suggest he did it. After all, who doesn't make mistakes? But, he doesn't appear to be that type of man.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Que, with your example, I find the principle generally true, but the problem is when we find people who are willing to act against one example by rewarding even worse. Realistically, we have Trump who is spongy on the Second Amendment, avoided Vietnam, but still is supportive of our troops both with his words and deeds--or we have Hillary who had a completely open bloodlust to disarm us of everything this side of sharp sticks and displays open contempt for such people as our troops and even her own Secret Service detail.

While I am still agreeing with you that it is not a justification, we are dealing with people we are not going to change. Right down to the last detail, Trump may never man up and own his imperfections, but then again, I don't see Hillary owning the pile of dead bodies in her wake sufficient to start her own funeral home, or any of her other criminal activities. At the end of the day, Trump is not the standard bearer I would have preferred to see at the front end of a potential Washington shakeup, but at least he is not a brazen criminal.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ref: Draft dodging

Running to Canada was draft dodging. Using connections to avoid the draft with no consequences was draft dodging. Playing with the rules that were given (ie using exemptions written in to the law), I can't really call that 'dodging' any more than refusing to go and accepting the legal consequences. The draft itself is questionable use of gov't power in my mind, particularly when the military action is overseas and not a direct invasion of US territory, and particularly when the exemptions are strongly geared toward forcing the poor to the military while providing ways to buy out for the wealthier folks. I volunteered and have plenty of respect for those drafted who did go and did serve, but I can't be too down on guys who made a stand and didn't...if they actually made a stand over what they viewed as gov't overreach. Ex: Muhammad Ali vs hippies running to Canada.

 

[BugI02]

When my children were very young, they would do things that were not acceptable in our home. Sometimes they would say, "well, 'Robert' did it too" or something similar. We always taught them to never use someone else's negative example as permission to ignore our standard. Today, it seems like we have a country full of children who complain about everything being wrong, but as soon as "they" do it, it's okay for everyone to ignore the standard.

Trump is a draft dodger who now talks about how much he loves the military and how he wants to make it stronger. Why does it matter what other Presidents did if the standard is draft dodging is not acceptable? This does not mean that others should not vote for him or he shouldn't be elected. I just believe that on this issue, he is not deserving of positive consideration, just like any other draft dodger. If he were the type of man to apologize, I would suggest he did it. After all, who doesn't make mistakes? But, he doesn't appear to be that type of man.

My personal feelings only: If a person knew about it when others did it, but overlooked it for whatever reasons, it raises the possibility that such a vociferous critique of Trump now is somewhat hypocritical and self-serving.

And yes, I was very critical of GWB spending his period of susceptibility to the draft protecting Texas from airborn incursions from Oklahoma. Given how plum that slot was, and the record of indifference he apparently established in it, I would conclude the influence of his father was all over that. That being said he must have had something on the ball to successfully fly the 102


"It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no" - Fortunate Son, Creedence Clearwater Revival

 

[Que]

My personal feelings only: If a person knew about it when others did it, but overlooked it for whatever reasons, it raises the possibility that such a vociferous critique of Trump now is somewhat hypocritical and self-serving.

And yes, I was very critical of GWB spending his period of susceptibility to the draft protecting Texas from airborn incursions from Oklahoma. Given how plum that slot was, and the record of indifference he apparently established in it, I would conclude the influence of his father was all over that. That being said he must have had something on the ball to successfully fly the 102


"It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no" - Fortunate Son, Creedence Clearwater Revival

So, again the focus is taken off the perpetrator. Who are you suggesting is overlooking what others did? What happens if there is no overlooking and wrong is simply called wrong? We are not from the media, using this to sell more magazines or garner additional clicks on a site. Somehow, what Trump did in secret has become public and is being used as proof of his support of the military, to gain votes. Many will believe this to be true. I simply choose to reject that notion. He may have many great qualities, but I just don't believe he is as much of a supporter of the military as he is an opportunist.

 

[jamil]

Here's a further list of people who don't deserve any service member's vote, then. And this is just the Republicans ( note a few on the list served with honor )

From: Who served?



Prominent Republicans

• Representative Patrick McHenry, R-NC - did not serve. Saw fit to endanger American troops' lives after a visit to Iraq by violating operational security and helping militias target their mortar attacks on the Green Zone.
• Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (1)
• Senate Assistant Minority Leader Trent Lott, R-MI - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Senate Republican Conference Chairman Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve.
• Senate Republican Conference Vice Chair John Cornyn, R-TX - did not serve.
• National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair John Ensign, R-NV - did not serve.
• House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-OH - did not serve.
• House Minority Whip Roy Blunt, R-MO - did not serve.
• House Republican Conerence Chair Adam Putnam, R-FL - did not serve.
• House Republican Policy Committee Thaddeus McCotter, R-MI - did not serve.
• National Republican Congressional Committee Chair Tom Cole, R-OK - did not serve.
• Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani - did not serve.
• Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney - did not serve in the military but did serve the Mormon Church on a 30-month mission to France.
• Former Senator Fred Thompson - did not serve.
• Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so in 2000? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him.
  
  

  ​

• Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve (1). "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
• Former House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
• Former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
• Rick Santorum, R-PA, formerly third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
• George Felix Allen, former Republican Senator from Virginia - a supporter of Nixon and the Vietnam war, did not serve. (1)
• Former Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.

• GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
• VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1)
• Former Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
• Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)
• Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a Republican.
• Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)
• Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
• "B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
• Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments

• Congressman Ron Paul - active duty flight surgeon from 1963-65; Air National Guard from 1965-68. (link)
• Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php
• Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. U.S. Senate: 404 Error Page
• Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations Recently entered plea bargain on felony charges of bribery, etc. etc.
• Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
• Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...")
• Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.

Was this a cut and paste or was it you who got Trent Lott's hame state wrong?

MI is the abbreviation of Michigan. MS is the abbreviation of Mississippi, Lott's home state. I didn't bother to look for other inaccuracies after that.

 

[BugI02]

So, again the focus is taken off the perpetrator. Who are you suggesting is overlooking what others did?[Anyone who voted for Bush/Cheney and didn't flag or mention their 'draft aversion' among other things] What happens if there is no overlooking and wrong is simply called wrong? We are not from the media, using this to sell more magazines or garner additional clicks on a site. Somehow, what Trump did in secret has become public and is being used as proof of his support of the military, to gain votes. Many will believe this to be true. I simply choose to reject that notion. He may have many great qualities, but I just don't believe he is as much of a supporter of the military as he is an opportunist.

Trying to keep this about no one in particular while alluding to confirmation bias moving people who already dislike Trump to jump on any story that could be interpreted in a manner consistent with what they already believe

How many US ambassadors and state dept personnel has Trump gotten killed. How many service men has Hitlery taken the time to even notice, much less care about