Does a fast draw and hit matter?

[cedartop]

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Two Seconds More food for thought from Todd. While I don't think a fast draw is the be all end all, I do feel it is important enough to work on. To make it even more valuable integrate at least a side step into your drawstroke. My on demand goal is draw and shoot, with a sidestep, and a hit on an 8 inch plate from 5 yards in a second and a half. My fastest was .9 of a second as measured by Tom Givens. If I could get to where I could do that consistently on demand, that would make me pretty happy. How about you?

 

[Rob377]

Faster is more better. Always faster.

At 7yds, I'd like to get consistently into the .7x range to a hit on an 8" plate. I'm close, but that last tenth or so is hard to get.

[video=youtube;2_3NWMfDlkI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_3NWMfDlkI[/video]

 

[cedartop]

Very impressive Rob. Too bad it doesn't count unless it is from concealment.

 

[Rob377]

What if I OC?

I probably should practice more from concealment, though.

 

[cedartop]

Rob as a side note, have you tried Dave Spauldings on demand drill? 2X2X2, 2 shots in 2 seconds at 20 feet on a 3X5 card from concealment. It looks like you might have room to spare. The hard part for me of course is that at that distance on that size target, I have to aim.

 

[Rob377]

Rob as a side note, have you tried Dave Spauldings on demand drill? 2X2X2, 2 shots in 2 seconds at 20 feet on a 3X5 card from concealment. It looks like you might have room to spare. The hard part for me of course is that at that distance on that size target, I have to aim.

Hadn't heard of it 'til now, but it sounds like a good one. A little more forgiving than using the upper A zone on a USPSA target, but it'd still require sights. Should be doable - 1.6 draw from concealment + .3 split sounds about right for that size target at that distance.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'm assuming it's pretty important, so that's why I keep working on getting that first accurate shot downrange quickly.

 

[Jackson]

I guess how important it is depends on the specific circumstances of the fight in which you're involved. I tend to believe a solid draw stroke is a foundational aspect of general gun-handling skills. Drills that develop, maintain, and/or test a well-executed draw stroke have advantages beyond fast first shots. They work out kinks in weapons access, develop smooth presentation, pass useful points within the motion, build a consistent stop point of the front sight in front of the eye (a skill for target transitions as well), and if done at varied ranges and target sizes also works on seeing what is needed to hit x target at y range without thinking too much about it.

So basically what I'm saying is, if you're working draw stroke drills enough to get sub 2 second first round hits, you're also working a lot of other important stuff.

 

[bwframe]

What if I OC?

Then you need to work a 180 degree spin move into your draw time. The threat will come from behind, if they can see your gun.

 

[SSGSAD]

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Two Seconds More food for thought from Todd. While I don't think a fast draw is the be all end all, I do feel it is important enough to work on. To make it even more valuable integrate at least a side step into your drawstroke. My on demand goal is draw and shoot, with a sidestep, and a hit on an 8 inch plate from 5 yards in a second and a half. My fastest was .9 of a second as measured by Tom Givens. If I could get to where I could do that consistently on demand, that would make me pretty happy. How about you?

I agree, a fast hit, is better than a fast miss !!!!!

 

[turnandshoot4]

Faster is more better. Always faster.

At 7yds, I'd like to get consistently into the .7x range to a hit on an 8" plate. I'm close, but that last tenth or so is hard to get.

[video=youtube;2_3NWMfDlkI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_3NWMfDlkI[/video]

Looks great! Do you ever film from the other side?

 

[Rob377]

Looks great! Do you ever film from the other side?

Yep. I was working on getting the weak hand to the gun a little sooner that day, hence that angle. Video review is awesome for technique work. There's a few from the other side on the youtube channel somewhere.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Just got back from your youtube channel. Looks great man! Subscribed.

 

[rhino]

Cheatin' practicer!

Question: when you are pushing yourself, do you see the sights as you are pressing the trigger til it breaks, or before?

Your hard work has certainly garnered good results, young man.

Faster is more better. Always faster.

At 7yds, I'd like to get consistently into the .7x range to a hit on an 8" plate. I'm close, but that last tenth or so is hard to get.

[video=youtube;2_3NWMfDlkI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_3NWMfDlkI[/video]

 

[Rob377]

Cheatin' practicer!

Question: when you are pushing yourself, do you see the sights as you are pressing the trigger til it breaks, or before?

Your hard work has certainly garnered good results, young man.

Way back in the day, my DIs used to say, "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!"

I'm seeing the sights as I pull through the trigger stroke, at least for that shot. For a longer or more difficult shot, I'd probably have more visual confirmation before pressing through the break point.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It matters a whole lot more than most of the minutiae that's constantly debated. I will also say that I know of at least one murder victim who was a victim because he was too slow.

As I've said before, I carry whatever I can draw and put 3 "A" box hits at 7 yards with the fastest. That covers the vast majority of gun fights. Yeah, I know, what about that one guy who had to do that one thing that one time and he needed 300 rounds of .308 and a bulldozer. The exception is always out there, but given limited resources I spend the majority of my time practicing for the more likely scenarios.

 

[esrice]

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Two Seconds More food for thought from Todd. While I don't think a fast draw is the be all end all, I do feel it is important enough to work on.

Thanks for the link Mike.

That sounds like an interesting study. For $4 it might be worth reading. I am curious what is included in the "less than 2 seconds" timeframe. Do they start the clock at Observe or Act? It sounds like the 2 seconds starts at Act, otherwise it doesn't leave much time for the other phases.

I believe a fast and efficient presentation is an important skill in the realm of defensive gun handling. Even better would be if it were fast and automatic, requiring little to no mental processing power once the decision has been made to shoot.

Video review is awesome for technique work.

I completely agree. I catch things all the time on video that I didn't realize I was doing.

 

[Rob377]

Thanks for the link Mike.

That sounds like an interesting study. For $4 it might be worth reading. I am curious what is included in the "less than 2 seconds" timeframe. Do they start the clock at Observe or Act? It sounds like the 2 seconds starts at Act, otherwise it doesn't leave much time for the other phases.

I believe a fast and efficient presentation is an important skill in the realm of defensive gun handling. Even better would be if it were fast and automatic, requiring little to no mental processing power once the decision has been made to shoot.



I completely agree. I catch things all the time on video that I didn't realize I was doing.

You don't get fast without automatic. If you're consciously going over some silly 10.5 step/count drawstroke in your head, you won't be fast.

 

[rhino]

You don't get fast without automatic. If you're consciously going over some silly 10.5 step/count drawstroke in your head, you won't be fast.

This is something I leaned (intellectually if not practically because I can't perform the skills at that level) from David Elderton years ago. The old mantra "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" isn't really true. Smooth is just less slow than not smooth. To be fast, you have to actually push and try to be fast when you practice.

My "hitch" is that I don't have the confidence to break the shot immediately when I have enough visual information. I'm still worried about missing, which suggests I haven't practiced enough to re-develop the confidence to trust the sights, and along the way also re-develop the conditioned behaviors that make the draw "automatic."

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'll have to take and post some videos of my Airsoft practice in my backyard for critique - I could use some. (Yeah I know it's Airsoft, but I can't shoot unsuppressed in my backyard, and the suppressor messes up my drawstroke. It recoils about the same as my GSG1911 trainer, in any case. Better trigger though )

In any case, I just downloaded an iPhone shot timer app and gave it a try. I'm getting a 1.30s average to first shot on an 8" target at 7 yrds, with about .45sec splits on the next 4 spread out in about a 120deg arc. But that is from an OC Bladetech DOH. I usually practice from an IWB which will almost certainly be slower when I time it...