Do you use the safety on your shotgun?

[phylodog]

True, but at least with the 1911, there's a grip safety, so it's actually a bit worse with the shotgun.

Agreed

 

[Fargo]

Shotguns are single action. Carrying with a round in the chamber and the safety off is no different than doing so with a 1911 except at least with the 1911 the trigger is covered by a holster (hopefully). Same goes for the AR15.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the folks in this thread who are advocating safety off doing so on the premise of an empty chamber making it more akin to Israeli carry of a 1911?

I always thought that cruiser ready meant chamber empty, safety off, hammer/ striker down. Am I incorrect on this? It is the only way I know of to store a shotgun with an empty chamber and a free slide. Hammer down usually mechanically precludes the safety from being on, although I don't remember if that is the case with an 870. (I'm a Winchester guy).

 

[phylodog]

I've read a few posts which weren't specific.

We train empty chamber, safety on. I've been doing it this way for 18 years now and it is now habit for me to grab an 870 with my strong hand around the receiver and my index finger goes directly to the action bar release. It doesn't take me any longer to chamber a round this way than if the hammer was down and the safety off, the benefit is that once I chamber a round my safety is on rather than off.

I use the Vang Comp Dome Head safety on mine which comes off simply by reaching for the trigger so I'm not losing any time to disable the safety. https://vangcomp.com/shop/vcs-remington-dome-head-safety/

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the folks in this thread who are advocating safety off doing so on the premise of an empty chamber making it more akin to Israeli carry of a 1911?

If you are trained, then your safety is on.

Biggest malfunction with the shotgun is the safety is on. Drill its manipulation until it becomes automatic. This will take training.

 

[Fargo]

If you are trained, then your safety is on.

Biggest malfunction with the shotgun is the safety is on. Drill its manipulation until it becomes automatic. This will take training.

So if you were dealing with Israeli carrying a 1911, you would do so with the safety engaged?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How do you rack an 870 on the sly? I have tried a hundred different ways hunting and I have not figured it out.

It probably isn't quiet enough for hunting, but with the bolt about 80% of the way back and the feed ramp pushed down, drop a shell into the chamber and then slowly work the pump forward. It will still click as it locks into place, but does not sound like the whap-chunk of racking a shotgun. In the LE context when I've wanted to be really quiet about it I've racked the shotgun inside the car before getting out (with the muzzle at the passenger side floorboard just in case) and I doubt the noise made it outside my car. Be sure to pull back on the pump a bit to make sure you locked it.

I can drop a round through the side and keep it quiet, but you have to have a loose round in hand. Getting one from the magazine into the chamber always goes "KA CHUNK" for me.

Yeah, like this. My stock holds spare shells, so I have them at hand.

Can you explain how using the safety on a shotgun is more safe than leaving it off?

Because it locks the trigger, and things get inside the trigger guard. Could be a finger, could be another piece of your gear, could be briars. Just because it doesn't prevent 100% of issues doesn't mean it prevents 0% of issues.

I've read a few posts which weren't specific.

We train empty chamber, safety on. I've been doing it this way for 18 years now and it is now habit for me to grab an 870 with my strong hand around the receiver and my index finger goes directly to the action bar release. It doesn't take me any longer to chamber a round this way than if the hammer was down and the safety off, the benefit is that once I chamber a round my safety is on rather than off.

This. Of course this is also (as an organization) who trained me. I sold my Mossberg because I am so used to the 870 now I do it without thought.

So if you were dealing with Israeli carrying a 1911, you would do so with the safety engaged?

Not the same thing. The 1911 safety prevents you from racking the slide when on "safe". The 870 safety does not.

 

[Fargo]

It probably isn't quiet enough for hunting, but with the bolt about 80% of the way back and the feed ramp pushed down, drop a shell into the chamber and then slowly work the pump forward. It will still click as it locks into place, but does not sound like the whap-chunk of racking a shotgun. In the LE context when I've wanted to be really quiet about it I've racked the shotgun inside the car before getting out (with the muzzle at the passenger side floorboard just in case) and I doubt the noise made it outside my car. Be sure to pull back on the pump a bit to make sure you locked it.



Yeah, like this. My stock holds spare shells, so I have them at hand.



Because it locks the trigger, and things get inside the trigger guard. Could be a finger, could be another piece of your gear, could be briars. Just because it doesn't prevent 100% of issues doesn't mean it prevents 0% of issues.



This. Of course this is also (as an organization) who trained me. I sold my Mossberg because I am so used to the 870 now I do it without thought.



Not the same thing. The 1911 safety prevents you from racking the slide when on "safe". The 870 safety does not.

On many shotguns, having the safety on requires the action to be cocked which locks the action. Plus, it wasn't an analogy I brought into the conversation.

 

[sloughfoot]

It probably isn't quiet enough for hunting, but with the bolt about 80% of the way back and the feed ramp pushed down, drop a shell into the chamber and then slowly work the pump forward. It will still click as it locks into place, but does not sound like the whap-chunk of racking a shotgun. In the LE context when I've wanted to be really quiet about it I've racked the shotgun inside the car before getting out (with the muzzle at the passenger side floorboard just in case) and I doubt the noise made it outside my car.

Sir, don't take this the wrong way, I am not criticizing your method, but I am reminded of the night a Ft Wayne Police Sergeant responded to an armed robbery in progress call. He did exactly what you describe, except he forgot there was a female Reserve Officer with him that night. He shot her just below the knee and that part of the leg was later amputated. A bunch of memories flooded up when I read what you posted.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Sir, don't take this the wrong way, I am not criticizing your method, but I am reminded of the night a Ft Wayne Police Sergeant responded to an armed robbery in progress call. He did exactly what you describe, except he forgot there was a female Reserve Officer with him that night. He shot her just below the knee and that part of the leg was later amputated. A bunch of memories flooded up when I read what you posted.

Pointing it at people when you chamber is a VERY bad idea. A bad idea with any firearm, but much more very bad with a free floating firing pin. Guns can and do go bang when the action is closed. (Well, I can't think of how a revolver could discharge closing the cylinder, but still...) That said, of course I wouldn't do so if I had someone in the car with me.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So if you were dealing with Israeli carrying a 1911, you would do so with the safety engaged?

Dude, just because I speak some Hebrew and Yiddish does not mean I was in Zahal.

That goofy crap the Israelis do? I don't know. But if Moshe knew what he was doing (merely growing a beard does not impart any gun knowledge), he would load the weapon and put the safety on.

I know it may not be Operator enough for some on INGO, but the safety is there for a reason.

INGO InstaOperator Safety:

 

[phylodog]

So if you were dealing with Israeli carrying a 1911, you would do so with the safety engaged?

[/B]
it wasn't an analogy I brought into the conversation.

If the question was directed at me, my answer is that the only way I would deal with Israeli carry of a 1911 would be to not do it. I brought the 1911 in as a comparison because it seems the majority of the membership here is familiar with them and familiar with how they were intended to be carried. I did not indicate they were the exact same in operation but I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone here recommend carrying one loaded, cocked and with the safety off. The holster covering the trigger does add another layer of safety since it helps greatly in reducing accidental drops as well as covers the trigger.

 

[Fargo]

If the question was directed at me, my answer is that the only way I would deal with Israeli carry of a 1911 would be to not do it. I brought the 1911 in as a comparison because it seems the majority of the membership here is familiar with them and familiar with how they were intended to be carried. I did not indicate they were the exact same in operation but I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone here recommend carrying one loaded, cocked and with the safety off. The holster covering the trigger does add another layer of safety since it helps greatly in reducing accidental drops as well as covers the trigger.

maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone advocate for cocked, loaded, safety off shotgun use/storage. I would agree it is a terrible idea.

 

[K_W]

There is no such thing as a safety. Now that that is out of the way...

870 and SKS are cruiser ready (closed action, empty chamber, safety off) rack and go.

The bolt rifles are open bolt on full magazine, safeties off.

Handguns are loaded and ready and have no safeties at all.

 

[phylodog]

maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone advocate for cocked, loaded, safety off shotgun use/storage. I would agree it is a terrible idea.

You must have, this statement was made in earlier this thread:

"Our HD shotgun is a mossberg SA-20 and it has a round chambered with the safety off. this is how ive trained the girls."

This one could be interpreted either way:

"Still prefer a good pump gun and never use the safety. No different to me than carrying a revolver or a Glock. Keep your bugger hook of the bang switch."

I haven't singled anyone out or told anyone they were wrong, just posting info for those who may not be aware.

 

[curraheeguns]

If you carry your shotgun with the safety off, you wouldn't hunt with anyone in my family. Just the way we were raised.

+2

 

[Fargo]

You must have, this statement was made in earlier this thread:

"Our HD shotgun is a mossberg SA-20 and it has a round chambered with the safety off. this is how ive trained the girls."

This one could be interpreted either way:

"Still prefer a good pump gun and never use the safety. No different to me than carrying a revolver or a Glock. Keep your bugger hook of the bang switch."

I haven't singled anyone out or told anyone they were wrong, just posting info for those who may not be aware.

You are correct, I did miss those.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I hunted rabbits and birds with an 870 for years before I thought about keeping one loaded for home defense.

Hunting rabbits or birds, I always kept one in the chamber with the safety on and it's still reflexive for me to put my finger on the safety when I'm shouldering the gun.

But, like BBI said, I keep my HD 870 with an empty chamber for safety reasons.

 

[Thor]

Empty chamber, safety off here. If there is a situation where I don't have time to cycle the action I think I'd be resorting to a sidearm anyway. If I have time to use a long gun I can't imagine a scenario where I wouldn't have time to work the action.

Now, in a double barrel, if I kept one of those loaded, the safety would be on. A pump gun no.

If a long gun was my only option I guess I still can't imagine leaving a primed and ready weapon hanging on the wall where I would have to leave it unattended. Poo does happen.

 

[Hookeye]

Here's another highly-trained Captain Tacticalpants that eschewed the safety: How I Shot My Leg Off with a Shotgun... Graphic - AR15.Com Archive

Gun safety is for noobs, amirite or what?

It would have probably been less painful to just have the word "Dumb-ass" tattooed on his forehead.

 

[Hookeye]

I have about 40 yrs of Remington 870/1100 and Mossberg 500/835 or Browning BPS or overunder shooting/hunting.

Unless I'm trap shooting with an open gun until my time to shoot, I use the safety.

Top tang or triggerguard.............can switch back and forth and it's never been a problem. No not finding the safety or reaching where it isn't...............I know by feel, and by thought, what friggin' gun I have.

Safety comes off as gun comes up.

If no shot taken, safety goes right back on.

It's all automatic.

As is checking to make sure the safety is back on, then, and soon after. And periodically during the hunt.

I use the safety all the time, and check to be sure I do, all the time.
Boom time.............it's always off.

WTH? If every other gun person slow of mind and hand? Do understand differences and stuff..............but blowing your leg off or some of the setups folks use or recommend.................damn.

Scary world we live in.