Do you detain?

[warriorbob]

I'm loving the discussion this has sparked. We all seem focused on discussing the fight and the potential aftermath but I see very little discussion on what if the fight never happened. I wanted to keep the scenario simple in the home invasion part so the answers focus on the question on hand and not all the ifs.

 

[Sylvain]

My question is for Steve because he made it sound like he would fire through the door without positively identifying who was on the other side.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

If they're in my home committing a felony, citizen's arrest. Hell yeah. First name basis with both our town cops. I'll hold them if I can.

Not much you can do, however, if they take off running. You can only use deadly force to protect life. Much as I'd like to, I ain't gonna fight a thug if they're scared enough to beet feet. I'll try my best to have a good description, maybe take a cell phone photo if I have time. Way I see it, if they run off leaving my family safe, mission accomplished, and they probably won't pick my home next time.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm loving the discussion this has sparked. We all seem focused on discussing the fight and the potential aftermath but I see very little discussion on what if the fight never happened. I wanted to keep the scenario simple in the home invasion part so the answers focus on the question on hand and not all the ifs.

The option of deadly force can't always be simple. That's what some people (not saying you) don't realize is that by deciding to carry a firearm they have just complicated everything and better have their head on their shoulders and thinking first.

 

[Boost Lee]

I'm intrigued by many of your guys' answers... many I agree with, many I don't.

Allow me to state something I haven't seen posted yet:

Say, in the event of a break-in, the perp decides to make a run for his life out of your house (of course, him knowing you are armed and have it pointing at the back of his head as he runs out).

Knowingly, he lost that battle.

Here's where MY problem comes in.

You won THAT battle.
Do you not think the chances are fairly high that the said perp would want to come back for a round 2? Except this time, he has a different intent - he wants revenge on YOU because you ruined his plans and threatened HIS life.

There is no art to the criminal mind other than knowing that they generally have no logic and the odds are only in your favor if you are in control.
The best you could do for "round 2" is to hope to God you are a better shot than him and or you're well trained in handling an angered and p*ssed off assailant.

Just a thought; But I know I'd rather detain him and get him behind bars rather than being able to freely run back to my residence for a second trip.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm intrigued by many of your guys' answers... many I agree with, many I don't.

Allow me to state something I haven't seen posted yet:

Say, in the event of a break-in, the perp decides to make a run for his life out of your house (of course, him knowing you are armed and have it pointing at the back of his head as he runs out).

Knowingly, he lost that battle.

Here's where MY problem comes in.

You won THAT battle.
Do you not think the chances are fairly high that the said perp would want to come back for a round 2? Except this time, he has a different intent - he wants revenge on YOU because you ruined his plans and threatened HIS life.

There is no art to the criminal mind other than knowing that they generally have no logic and the odds are only in your favor if you are in control.
The best you could do for "round 2" is to hope to God you are a better shot than him and or you're well trained in handling an angered and p*ssed off assailant.

Just a thought; But I know I'd rather detain him and get him behind bars rather than being able to freely run back to my residence for a second trip.

I can't assassinate someone because I'm worrying about if they will come back. I'm sure some here would shoot to kill no matter what and lie to say whatever gets them out of legal trouble, but I won't kill like that. I don't aim for the legs but I also will only shoot to stop the threat. So if they are still alive on the floor and no longer a threat then I'm not going to murder them by delivering a death shot. Some would and they will go to prison if they ever do it.

 

[warriorbob]

Yea I know it can and will be a dynamic situation but for the sake of an answer I followed the kiss idea for this post. My home is really simple, almost like a trailer. Open up the bed room door and see to the other end of the house. What I had in mind was a high school punk, say 17, broke expecting an easy score then all the sudden hes blinded by bright light and then sees the barrel of blank pointed at him and now it's not at all what he thought it would be. Let's say he's scared to the point of being incoherent. He's not being dangerous, but he's so scared he can't move and only responds by begging for his life and even when you tell him to get out he's still to scared to move.

 

[cook4army]

Here's a dilemma...same situation, find a perp in your house, you tell him to freeze, he is not armed. can you be arrested or possibly have a civil suit filed against you for wrongful imprisonment for holding him in your house until the LEO shows up?

 

[Trigger Time]

Yea I know it can and will be a dynamic situation but for the sake of an answer I followed the kiss idea for this post. My home is really simple, almost like a trailer. Open up the bed room door and see to the other end of the house. What I had in mind was a high school punk, say 17, broke expecting an easy score then all the sudden hes blinded by bright light and then sees the barrel of blank pointed at him and now it's not at all what he thought it would be. Let's say he's scared to the point of being incoherent. He's not being dangerous, but he's so scared he can't move and only responds by begging for his life and even when you tell him to get out he's still to scared to move.

Then as long as he doesn't move towards me it will be his day to live and hopefully turn his life around. By "detain" I wont put hands on him and I won't shoot if he tries to flee (he won't know that because I will be commanding him not to ****ing move), I would probably try to increase distance between him and I.

 

[Sylvain]

Here's a dilemma...same situation, find a perp in your house, you tell him to freeze, he is not armed. can you be arrested or possibly have a civil suit filed against you for wrongful imprisonment for holding him in your house until the LEO shows up?

I believe that you can detain it if he breaks into your home.The fact of him being armed or not is not important.
Also you wouldn't know if he's armed until you search him, which you shouldn't do.

 

[Trigger Time]

Here's a dilemma...same situation, find a perp in your house, you tell him to freeze, he is not armed. can you be arrested or possibly have a civil suit filed against you for wrongful imprisonment for holding him in your house until the LEO shows up?

You can always be sued for most anything nowdays. I don't think this would be considered a illegal detention because they are committing a serious crime. I'm not sure what the definition of a citizens arrest is but it's my understanding you do not need to say those words for it to be one. Maybe before the police take custody?
There are certain times where my life comes before stupid laws

 

[Ruffnek]

I'm intrigued by many of your guys' answers... many I agree with, many I don't.

Allow me to state something I haven't seen posted yet:

Say, in the event of a break-in, the perp decides to make a run for his life out of your house (of course, him knowing you are armed and have it pointing at the back of his head as he runs out).

Knowingly, he lost that battle.

Here's where MY problem comes in.

You won THAT battle.
Do you not think the chances are fairly high that the said perp would want to come back for a round 2? Except this time, he has a different intent - he wants revenge on YOU because you ruined his plans and threatened HIS life.

There is no art to the criminal mind other than knowing that they generally have no logic and the odds are only in your favor if you are in control.
The best you could do for "round 2" is to hope to God you are a better shot than him and or you're well trained in handling an angered and p*ssed off assailant.

Just a thought; But I know I'd rather detain him and get him behind bars rather than being able to freely run back to my residence for a second trip.

Here's another thought along the "round 2" path:

You detain him,he goes to jail(if the system works correctly) and has X amount of time to think about the person who put him there and how he will get revenge for that lost time.Round 2 could get hairy.

 

[Steve B]

Round "2" can happen whether you kill him or not. There's always his family & friends who may come to seek that revenge for him. At the very least you probably wake up to a yard full of teddy bears, candles & flowers for the "poor baby that lost his life. He was a good boy you know. He was only doing this one last time to get the $$$ to start over. Now thanks to you he'll never get that chance.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

The objective for me is to get the threat neutralized for me and my family. Immediately. If that means he or they run out of my house screaming and whizzing themselves, fine. I have no desire to kill anyone. On the other hand, should they refuse, then they will get the best fight I can offer. Primary goal - get out of my house and away from mine. Secondary goal - apprehension and making sure they don't hurt others. So if/as soon as they leave, I'm calling 911 and doing anything I can to help bring them to justice. That said - leave my house or die comes first. I have no desire to detain a continuing threat inside my home, where they can do damage to my family. Once they are outside , and my family is accounted for - then we can talk detention/apprehension.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I'd be more worried if it were Bill and Hillary's house... And I'm not sure which would scare me more...

 

[churchmouse]

Legally (yes, had to say the L word) detaining inside is best for you. Safety for the family is always an issue. My kids are fully grown, armed, trained and dangerous when confronted in a negative manner. My wife is no coward and will defend herself. These factors add up to anyone we catch in the house being detained/severely hurt/ended if they resist. We will defend life/property to any level desired by those intent on taking it. Once you let them outside you will no longer be able to say you were in fear for your life or defending your home if things escalate to you having to use deadly force. If you have the skills to detain then do it right away. Get the upper hand and keep it. If you lack these skills then yes, take up a defensive posture and wait for help.

 

[SteveM4A1]

My question is for Steve because he made it sound like he would fire through the door without positively identifying who was on the other side.

Sorry I am not explaining this clearly enough. I do not mean an outside light. At the entry of every room in my house, I have a motion detected light that will come on when you enter. I would be staying in that room I am in waiting for that light to come on and shine in their face, and I have instructed my wife to do the same in a situation such as this.

 

[Lectric102002]

As Goober would say, Citizen's Arrest! Citizen's Arrest!

That was Gomer.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

OP: You should not attempt to SEEK an engagement and attempt to detain dangerous individuals unless you are trained to do that sort of thing.

I was trained by the state of Idiana in building assaults and tactical cuffing among other things, and you still wouldnt catch me "creeping stealthfully down the hall" on my way to "detain" someone in my own home unless I had absolutely no other choice. That stuff is not a game, and unless you are a bad @$$ of the highest order, you have no buisness going it alone in such matters (or EVER if you are not professionally trained).

 

[sloughfoot]

OP: You should not attempt to SEEK an engagement and attempt to detain dangerous individuals unless you are trained to do that sort of thing.

I was trained by the state of Idiana in building assaults and tactical cuffing among other things, and you still wouldnt catch me "creeping stealthfully down the hall" on my way to "detain" someone in my own home unless I had absolutely no other choice. That stuff is not a game, and unless you are a bad @$$ of the highest order, you have no buisness going it alone in such matters (or EVER if you are not professionally trained).

This^^^^^ Deserves being read again. and again.

I will say it again, your goal should be to make him run away.