Do you approve of peacefully armed protesters?

[oldfb]

Then why are you asking people to join you for a walk, (you know, to show our rights), and asking them to unload the chambers of the rifles?

I assumed it was in the interest of safe gun handling since a gun on a sling is less secure than a handgun in a holster.

Then again it could be because most gun owners a rabid dogs that are so much a product of public education that they spemm potato with an e. (potatoe).

But hey I could be wrong, maybe he just wants more guncontrol.

Personally I am oneof the people that looks forward to attending someday. But.. NWI and unable to walk, sit or stand for any serious length of time counts me out for now.

Maybe a local event some day but for now I show my support in my own special charming way.

Hope it helps!

 

[SavageEagle]

I assumed it was in the interest of safe gun handling since a gun on a sling is less secure than a handgun in a holster.

Then again it could be because most gun owners a rabid dogs that are so much a product of public education that they spemm potato with an e. (potatoe).

But hey I could be wrong, maybe he just wants more guncontrol.

Personally I am oneof the people that looks forward to attending someday. But.. NWI and unable to walk, sit or stand for any serious length of time counts me out for now.

Maybe a local event some day but for now I show my support in my own special charming way.

Hope it helps!

Hit it on the nail. I want more Gun Control. I'm a Wolve in Sheepdog costume. Yup. That's me.

No, seriously, if you don't think accidents happen or someone hell bent on making us look bad wouldn't run up and pull the trigger can't happen you don't know our enemy well. I don't really think anything will happen but you hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Maybe 6birds just thinks the world is hunky-doory and never prepares for, say, tornados, floods, food shortages, water contamination, rabid zombies, what have you...

On the other hand, he could just be popping into all these threads giving me a hard time because he's insecure about himself and just wants to get a rise out of me. Personally, I find it rather amusing.

 

[USMC_0311]

I would like to know if anyone participating plans on chambering a round into their rifle.

 

[cce1302]

I would like to know if anyone participating plans on chambering a round into their rifle.

I open carried at the 9-12 project's rally in Mishawaka on Tuesday, with a round in the chamber (actually a round in each of 8 chambers). My wife OC'd with a round in the chamber of her handgun. I don't know what makes a rifle with a round chambered any less safe than a handgun with a round chambered. I won't be able to make it to the walk in Indianapolis, but if I were there, I'd have a round chambered, as I always do when I'm carrying.

During a training exercise once, my battalion commander posed a question to the BN. He asked, "which is safer, a weapon in condition one, with the safety on, or a weapon in condition four?
His point was that with proper weapon handling and following the safety rules, a weapon with a round in the chamber can be used to defend oneself much more readily than a weapon in any other condition.

Isn't that the purpose of carrying weapons in the first place?

 

[SavageEagle]

His point was that with proper weapon handling and following the safety rules, a weapon with a round in the chamber can be used to defend oneself much more readily than a weapon in any other condition.

Isn't that the purpose of carrying weapons in the first place?

Look, I understand your point, but you must not understand mine. We are not at war out there and we are not out there to train for war. There will be some people who are not properly trained. Accidents happen. And there are people out there who would do anything to make us look bad in the worst way.

We can observe all the safety rules in the book, but how does that stop someone from walking up acting friendly and quickly reaching over, flipping a switch and pulling the trigger?

It's not a likely possiblity, but it is plausible and something I'm preparing for. Is that really so wrong?

 

[cce1302]

Look, I understand your point, but you must not understand mine. We are not at war out there and we are not out there to train for war. There will be some people who are not properly trained. Accidents happen.

better not carry guns at all then.

And there are people out there who would do anything to make us look bad in the worst way.

We can observe all the safety rules in the book, but how does that stop someone from walking up acting friendly and quickly reaching over, flipping a switch and pulling the trigger?

It isn't meant to stop someone from walking up and acting friendly and quickly reaching over, flipping a switch, and pulling a trigger. It also won't stop someone from seeing that there are a bunch of people carrying rifles and shooting at you guys out their window, or quickly reaching over, cycling a round, and pulling the trigger, or wearing a nazi armband to make you look bad, or any other far-fetched scenario.

It's not a likely possiblity, but it is plausible and something I'm preparing for. Is that really so wrong?

I don't think it's wrong to write whatever rules you want to write for your walk, nor do I think that your scenario is plausible.

Really, I hope you guys accomplish what you intend to accomplish with this walk, and I completely support your efforts in this. I just question that one detail, and don't mean to detract from your cause at all.

 

[oldfb]

I think that if you cannot see the prudence in requesting a slung rifle not to have a chambered round you are looking for a reason to obtusely hint at hypocrisy.

There have been numerous documented occurances of a rifle discharge while being dropped from slung while carried in the field. Set down and falling over or discharging while being carefully placed over a fence so the carrier may climb the obstruction.
Any number of scenarios that correlate to the urban walk proposed.

The number of recorded times A pistol has had an accidental discharge from a retention holster, while not in transition between draw or reholster are virtually nil. The few reported events involved holster failing to retain the pistol, something being introduced into the holster like clothing or a branch.

While a mechanical safety is a great device for your firearm. It is mechanical and subject to failure. That is why the important safety we have is between our ears.

I appreciate their efforts for the cause and their attention by trying to go beyond the "basics", in an effort to eliminate negligent or malicious happenstance which might negate their efforts.

Good luck and if some can't follow those rules. It is America! Start your own march / walk with the chambered rifle crowd.

Goodluck

Chris

 

[SavageEagle]

better not carry guns at all then. It isn't meant to stop someone from walking up and acting friendly and quickly reaching over, flipping a switch, and pulling a trigger. It also won't stop someone from seeing that there are a bunch of people carrying rifles and shooting at you guys out their window, or quickly reaching over, cycling a round, and pulling the trigger, or wearing a nazi armband to make you look bad, or any other far-fetched scenario.

I don't think it's wrong to write whatever rules you want to write for your walk, nor do I think that your scenario is plausible.

Really, I hope you guys accomplish what you intend to accomplish with this walk, and I completely support your efforts in this. I just question that one detail, and don't mean to detract from your cause at all.

I do appreciate your support in this and I completely understand your concern. But this being the very first event like this in Indiana, and the limited help I've recieved in planning this, that's just how it is. Not everyone is going to completely agree, but that's life.

The second time around will most likely be a lot less restrictive, but this first time MUST go flawlessly or not at all.

 

[dburkhead]

Look, I understand your point, but you must not understand mine. We are not at war out there and we are not out there to train for war. There will be some people who are not properly trained. Accidents happen. And there are people out there who would do anything to make us look bad in the worst way.

To underscore SE's point:

If an accident happens when someone is just walking around, or in his own home, that's an accident.

If an accident happens at a protest where people are carrying as a form of protest, that's a disaster.

Furthermore, when one is by oneself there is one person who might have an accident. When there are a bunch of people together, you've got all those chances multiplied (not added) together.*

The results of such an accident are far more severe for the cause of RKBA in one case than in the other, and the chances of someone having an accident are much higher when there are a bunch of people together rather. Under those circumstances greater precautions against such accidents are warranted.

* Odds multiply rather than adding. If we want to know how likely it is that no accident happens we take the odds that each individual will not have an accident and multiply them together: If the probability of "no accident" is, say 99.99% for one person, then for two such persons the probability is 99.980001 that nothing will happen. For 100 such people, it's 99%. For 1000 such people, only 90.5%. For 10,000 (a very, very large event indeed) such people, the probability of "no accident" becomes a measly 36.8%.

 

[ejscott]

im with savageeagle's first post couldn't put it any better.

 

[Oldcoyotedream]

From Wikipedia

A weapon is a tool used to apply force for the purpose of hunting, attack, self-defense, or defense in combat.

My father is the smartest man I know (74yo) he taught me from the time I knew what a gun was that the only time you have a gun out is when it is to be used. I relish my constitutional rights and I need not flaunt it. The military open carries as a show of force as do law enforcement. I have no need for a show of force to my fellow citizens and the curious innocent child that may observe from a distance. I invision a crazed drug dealing crack head with a Tech 9 spinning around yelling I have the gun so I have the power, I'm in control now!!!
We must be intelligent enough to communicate an exchange of understanding to those who act to oppress "we the people". There may come a time when a show of force becomes neccessary, only then will they know the rath of the second amendment. Until then, well - it's like playing poker, no one has paid to see my cards so I'll choose not to show my hand!

Life is a choice, make your own, don't follow the other guy's!!!

 

[SavageEagle]

Very well put. Very well put indeed.

I wish to say that Open Carrying also serves a second purpose. Education. In this day and age when the "gun" is under attack itself and gun "owners" are demonized just for having a gun, it's important now, more than ever, to do all we can to educate those who know little to nothing about guns.

That is my purpose. Nothing more. Certainly, nothing less.

 

[cce1302]

From Wikipedia

A weapon is a tool used to apply force for the purpose of hunting, attack, self-defense, or defense in combat.

My father is the smartest man I know (74yo) he taught me from the time I knew what a gun was that the only time you have a gun out is when it is to be used.

Are you defining having a gun visible in a holster the same as having a gun out to use it, i.e. to shoot someone or something?

I relish my constitutional rights and I need not flaunt it. The military open carries as a show of force as do law enforcement.

not necessarily true. there are several reasons the military open carries. One is because they are in uniform, easily recognizable, and have no need to hide their weapons. Another is because it is much quicker to get an open carried weapon into service than a hidden one, while carrying a lot of gear. One thing I carried was an M9 in a thigh rig, which is probably 10 times faster than carrying IWB under body armor.

I have no need for a show of force to my fellow citizens and the curious innocent child that may observe from a distance.

what about education, as SE mentioned? to inform people that there are people other than crazed drug head crack dealers that carry handguns. If the only ones that are seen with guns are crazed drug head crack dealers, murderers like the one @ virginia tech, and people on youtube laughing at skinny chicks that hit themselves on the head with a 50AE DE, then it would make sense to them to outlaw guns. And why would you want to hide your gun from a child? there have been many examples posted on here of people who have been asked by children about their guns. Guns are nothing to be ashamed of. There is nothing threatening about a person walking around with a visible holstered handgun.

I invision a crazed drug dealing crack head with a Tech 9 spinning around yelling I have the gun so I have the power, I'm in control now!!!

you go ahead with that.

We must be intelligent enough to communicate an exchange of understanding to those who act to oppress "we the people". There may come a time when a show of force becomes necessary, only then will they know the [w]rath of the second amendment. Until then, well - it's like playing poker, no one has paid to see my cards so I'll choose not to show my hand!

I'd prefer they see how many reasonable, respectable gun owners are out there carrying every day, without incident, and hopefully avoid any wrath. That's just me, though.

Life is a choice, make your own, don't follow the other guy's!!!

 

[longbarrel]

You're correct about brandish having a few different meanings. I meant it in the facetious flaunt variant. I have no issue with citizens following carry/conceal/etc laws, just that the 2nd Amendment provides a qualified right just as the 1st Amendment provides qualified rights. (see Robert Bork's very smart 1971 Indiana University Law Journal article on how the 1st Amendment to free speech qualified without a doubt)

I appreciate that robust debate, but be careful calling something horse crap or not addressing the crux of the argument. Doesn't make me look bad, just makes it seem you cannot engage an issue without ad homenem attacks, or just patronizing, which is a shame.

You can't win. I would not even try any more. Just give in and let it go.

 

[SavageEagle]

Just for the record, I carry all day long openly. In my home, around all 4 of my kids. They have become so used to it that it's no longer an issue. The only person who takes issue is my 58 year old mom. If it was up to her, we'd never have guns in this house period, but she's coming around. I may have her convinced to go to the range with me.