DNR Public Input on Proposals Hearings

[clfergus]

Willie - you might know the answer to this question. How do the people on the DFW and the committees who are suggesting the NO vote get placed in these positions? Are they elected?

I think its time that we need to band together and make it known to those making these decisions that we aren't happy being told what we can do. If they won't listen to all of the reasonable information provided and continue with their knee jerk reactions to whoever is the lobby against this we are coming for their jobs.

Get my post in front of them...if Al Sharpton can get people fired with no legit backing can't a group of hard working, tax paying hunters do the same?

 

[bobjones223]

Okay so here is my question on legal loopholes? I have a Mauser 96 action sitting around that I have been wanting to instal a 7.62X39 barrel conversion on through Numrickes.....I know not spelled right but you know who I am talking about. So if I get it and cut it down to 15.5" and add a Sig brace would that then be legal as a pistol? I know there are other cartridge options out there but I really only want a 200 yard gun and with the 154gr SP ammo it is very close to the 30/30 it would also be very cheep to shoot.

 

[phylodog]

Once it's been a rifle (equipped with a stock) I don't believe it can be made into a pistol.

 

[Willie]

None of these folks are elected. As far as I know the DFW are hired folks who work for the government. Their big boss is Pence.

the Natural Resources Commision is appointed by the Governor and is basically an unpaid position.

see- http://www.in.gov/nrc/2352.htm

I think that they paid a lot of attention to the northern flat land landowners that complained about their safety concerns. It is possible that this can be amended to allow centerfires in the more hilly areas of southern Indiana. It just depends on if the DFW and the NRC decide to do it now or wait another year or two. It will be a long time before it is statewide, if ever.

 

[bobjones223]

Once it's been a rifle (equipped with a stock) I don't believe it can be made into a pistol.

So how does that work with the Thompson Contenders? You can flip flop those back and forth all day?

 

[avboiler11]

If a pistol FIRST, then you can go pistol to rifle and back and be completely within the lines of BATFE regulation.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

If it was a stocked rifle first (as I assume a Mauser 96 action was?) then it is always a rifle.

 

[sportsman223]

avboiler Was that changed after TC sued them? because there reply was different in 2009

 

[bobjones223]

If a pistol FIRST, then you can go pistol to rifle and back and be completely within the lines of BATFE regulation.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

If it was a stocked rifle first (as I assume a Mauser 96 action was?) then it is always a rifle.

So when you take a pump shotgun and add a pistol grip to it is it still a rifle? Is it a pistol? Is it a rifle because the overall length has to be over 24"?

I am so confused but think I may see a light at the end of the tunnel.

So if I was to take a barreled action with a 16" barrel and install it in a bullpup stock the overall length MUST be over 24" or I have turned it into a pistol?

 

[M67]

So how does that work with the Thompson Contenders? You can flip flop those back and forth all day?

Used to be able to. ATF has flip flopped on that a few times.

As it stands now, if it started life as a pistol (this goes for ARs or any other "modular" platform) it can go between a pistol and a rifle freely.

If it left the factory with a buttstock (shotgun or rifle) it will always be considered a shotgun or a rifle. If you want a shorter barrel on either (no matter if you put a pistol grip on it or a Sig brace) you have to pay the $200 tax and either SBR or SBS the firearm because it started life off from the factory with a buttstock.


Mossberg 500s that ship from the factory with a pistol grip installed usually have a sticker on the box stating that it has to be ran as a handgun on the 4473 and the buyer has to be 21 (as opposed to 18 for the regular shotgun).

 

[digitalrebel80]

The part of the proposed rule changes that has to do with handguns registered as a rifle and meet the legal classification of a pistol Is that saying that SBRs would be legal under pistol rules?

 

[Deet]

Old guy here, I have been hunting since the 70's. I remember when SG and ML were the only things we could use to take deer during firearms season. Then in the early 80's they allowed handguns. That was great, but not the best guns to use for most people. It takes hours of practice to get good with a handgun. Then in 2005 or so they let us use pistol caliber rifles, again great move but still a little lacking in caliber selection. We as a hunting community started to modify and/or develop calibers that could be used for deer. The 35 rem cut down, the hoosier round, etc, which were good to use on deer, but not really standard rounds. We just want to use standard factory guns and ammo like the rest of the country for deer. The 243, 270, 308 and 30-30 are all good rounds and what I have waited my entire life to see approved for deer. Now we must wait for several more years to try and get them approved, which sadly may be too long a wait for some of us. My dream of taking a deer with a standard ammo and bolt gun is now just a dream. What a shame, shame on Indiana for rejecting approval of the proposal.

 

[oldpink]

The part of the proposed rule changes that has to do with handguns registered as a rifle and meet the legal classification of a pistol Is that saying that SBRs would be legal under pistol rules?

Not if its bullet diameter is less than .357", or its empty case length is not between 1.16" and 1.625".
It must have started life as a handgun, even if its barrel is of handgun length.
You can currently (until the notoriously capricious ATF tries to play games with the law again) put a rifle stock on a Contender or Encore handgun and rifle length barrel and hunt deer with that, as long as you meet the cartridge case length and bullet diameter requirements.
Or you can keep your Contender or Encore, or Savage Striker, Pachmayr Encore, or ???, and leave it as a handgun, and use whatever cartridge you like, as long as its bullet is at least .243", and as long as the case length meets the current minimums for rifles, but you have no maximum case length restriction.
IOW, the only change the proposed (and apparently about to be defeated) changes would have done would have been to legalize in rifles all the cartridges currently legal in handguns.
Sadly, many of those against such a rational change were themselves hunters.
Ridiculous, no?

You nailed it right there, Deet.

 

[digitalrebel80]

This is the part I'm talking about.

Clarifies that handguns currently legal to use during the firearms season are legal even if originally designed and registered as a rifle. This would clarify that a rifle that can be changed to be used as a handgun can be used during deer firearms season as long as it meets requirements for legal handguns.

Under indiana law I thought SBRs were considered handguns IC 35-47-1-6
so could they be used with the .243 or larger rule for handguns

 

[Cerberus]

Everyone needs ti keep pushing the issue. Keep up the fight. Even address this issue with you local representatives. Put heat on everyone. If the fudds dont like it they can do as they tell us. STAY HOME

 

[M4Madness]

This is the part I'm talking about.

Clarifies that handguns currently legal to use during the firearms season are legal even if originally designed and registered as a rifle. This would clarify that a rifle that can be changed to be used as a handgun can be used during deer firearms season as long as it meets requirements for legal handguns.

Under indiana law I thought SBRs were considered handguns IC 35-47-1-6
so could they be used with the .243 or larger rule for handguns

Indiana considers an SBR to be a handgun, and at one time, it was a loophole that one could use to hunt deer with an SBR chambered in any caliber over .243" (since it was considered a pistol). The issue was brought before the DNR a few years ago, and they closed the loophole.

 

[Lammchop93]

The DNR meeting is tomorrow, so keep your fingers crossed and make any last minute emails or phone calls in the morning!

 

[Willie]

Every one of these proposals are hashed out within the DNR and NRC before it ever gets to the final adoption. Going to the final meeting and giving public input now is futile. Their minds are already made up.

The DNR really wanted the centerfires legalized. It would straighten up their hodge podge of rifle regulations that now exists. Unfortunately FEAR is a very easy sell and the antis played that card in spades, both human safety and a fear of "decimating the herd".. Things were going pretty well until they held the northern meetings where it was overwhelming opposition against them as "they are unsafe on flat land".

The vice chair of the NRC Advisory committee chimed in with the same argument stating that some states segregate the shotgun and rifle areas because of topography. Never mind that there are multiple states that are full blown centerfires no matter what the topography is. IMO - She had her mind made up and went looking for just enough data to prove her argument.

It also would not surprise me that some politicians got involved.

The NRC has more than enough input to amend this proposal and pass it to make all centerfires legal in certain areas and/or limit the number of cartridges. Whether they want to tackle that now or not is a "who knows". My best guess is that they will thumb it down and bring it back in the next year or two totally re-written. My other guess is that it will mirror Michigan's centerfire laws.

 

[midget]

I guess the next logical discussion is as to how we start replacing members of the NRC

 

[gunselman]

anxiously waiting.

 

[Willie]

The DNR withdrew the rifle proposal. It is officially dead.

it will be back in a different form in the next year or two.