Department is trading from 40 S&W to 45 ACP

[yogiboobooranger]

I have to say after owning both caliber guns, and reloading for both, that the .40 does seem to have a larger recoil than the .45, however, if I want to carry for concealment, most CCW guns in .40 are smaller in size, e.g., Kahr P40..much slimmer than any Glock .40. As far as department issue, I have to agree with the Sheriff..give me a .45 for duty use..got to love the .45!!

 

[Fenway]

This please! Well said.

Most guns, regardless of action, are more accurate than most shooters. I've seen plenty of 1911 shooters who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and plenty of double action revolver shooters who were scary accurate. Although the 1911 can be more easily shot accurately due to the light, single action trigger, good ergonomics and long sight radius, real-world accuracy is usually a product of shooter skill, regardless of action.

 

[figley]

I think the dealer is out of central Ohio, but not 100% sure.

hopefully, it's AIM. they've always done right by me.

 

[public servant]

I think going from .40 to .45 ACP for the general LEO type is probably a bad choice.

What's a "general LEO type"?

And why is it a bad choice?

 

[pierce195]

The 45 ACP with the Winchester Ranger has worked well so far. The round has stopping power and the felt recoil is less for follow up shots.

 

[yogiboobooranger]

Originally Posted by sporter
I think going from .40 to .45 ACP for the general LEO type is probably a bad choice.
What's a "general LEO type"? I am copying this question as I wish to hear an answer as well. A Policeman probably would not have that position unless he qualified for it. Most if not all are Gun Hounds as well, so how does "General LEO type" make the caliber change a bad choice?

 

[GlockRock]

I think going from .40 to .45 ACP for the general LEO type is probably a bad choice.

Why is it a bad choice? What is a general LEO? I carry a 45 on duty and think it's a great choice.

 

[wtfd661]

I think going from .40 to .45 ACP for the general LEO type is probably a bad choice.

Well, I'm not a general LEO only a Capt. LEO and my department carries .45 ACP, but what do we know?

 

[bw210]

I prefer the .40s&w as my first carry option. I started with a 9mm and HATED everything about it, then carried a Glock 27 for 13 years, now a Springfield EMP40 (almost IMO the perfect carry gun) for a tad over a year and never would look back. I could group both very well during quick draw double tap practice drills - neither of these guns are for all day bulls-eye shooting . The .40s&w is a perfect CC package - very accurate, very powerful cartridge, plentiful 180gr ammo selection & single stacks are thinner than most 9mm firearms.

On the other hand, I like my full size .45's and have a few nice one's. If concealment, width & weight was not an issue, and I carried my 5" OWB every day regardless of where I went, then that is what I would use - 1911 of course.

 

[SNAFU-M1A]

I carried the G22 for the 1st 8 years on the street & then switched to my personal G21 & have been carrying it for almost 2 years & couldn't be happier. I notice less recoil & actually shoot better w/ it, & i'm a good shot. I liked the G22 ok but I love the the G21.

 

[MrBogok]

Funny, my glock 27 seems to have no problem knockin em down at 50+ yards

 

[sporter]

Why is it a bad choice? What is a general LEO? I carry a 45 on duty and think it's a great choice.

General=rank and file. Most LEO are not marksman or gun enthusiasts. Obviously there is a great number that are and that is good. However when it comes to capacity, weight, etc. .45 ACP is not the best choice.

You might like .45 ACP and do well with that and that's fine. However I think today's LE Hollow Point 9mm, .40 etc. have the same kill probability that .45 does.

You can disagree with me all you would like but most departments carry .40 and there has been millions spent on research that has come to that conclusion that is probably the best round for duty carry for all demographics in law enforcement.

We can all preach accuracy, shooter, etc. etc. but the facts are most police as well as most citizens are not that good of a pistol shot.

All that being said I won't even own a .40 caliber handgun. I don't need to carry for a living. I like and shoot 9mm and .45 acp myself.

Just because I carry 9mm I don't preach around its the best caliber for everyone. It's a personal choice.
However there is a reason most departments today issue .40 caliber.

I can also think of several reasons .45 would not fly well for most demographics in law enforcement:

1. Most .45 pistols have larger grips (this rules out smaller males and most females).
2. Less capacity than 9mm or .40
3. More weight with essentially less fire power
4. More cost to tax payers/departments that are already strapped for cash
5. More perceived muzzle rise out of .45 acp

Oh and the 1911 would be a terrible choice for most LE departments (this coming from a 1911 fan)

Those are just some reasons off the top of my head.

And for those that have no access to a dictionary:

General; definition:
of or pertaining to all persons or things belonging to a group or category

 

[glockednlocked]

I love both 40 and 45 glocks I think it all goes back to training. And to some extend "institutional history" if the boss thinks it is better then you just better get to likeing it. If I had choice of the 2 for a uniform duty weapon I would say the full size m21 45 would be my choice as it fits me and it makes big holes. but that said the smaller grip size of the 40 might suit more hand sizes. My favorite glock bar none is the little m27 40 so I would like the idea of being issued a M22 for ammo and mag exchange. so in short I dont think either is right or wrong its all choice. I just know whatever is on your hip, treat it like you love it and it will love you back. and shoot it alot!

 

[kilo11]

Correct me if I am wrong:

The majority of LEO aren't necessarily "gun people".
LEO that shoot beyond the amount imposed by their department are unquestionably in the minority.
There are LEO on every department that barely qualify.

If any of these statements are unfair, I am willing to hear the rebuttal.

A hunting buddy is a LEO, was formerly the firearms instructor before he realized that it was a PITA. Part of his challenge as firearms instructor was to work with the guys who couldn't qualify. I cannot remember if it was every six months, or annually, but he had a couple guys who he swore never shot their pistol between qualifications. I have taken his experiences to be generalizable, but they may not be.

Here's where I am going with this: If some officers are having trouble qualifying with smaller calibers, won't a 45 simply exacerbate the issue? Thoughts?

I think that the Glock 21sf's should be easier to shoot than the .40 cal glocks. In my experience the G21s have less felt recoil than the G22s due to a more robust weapon system and lower slide velocity. Many other departments show similar results with as much as 30% better scores with the G21SF compared to the G22.

 

[kilo11]

Our Sheriff has made the decision to trade our Glock model 22's for Glock 21 SF's. We almost went with the Smith M&P last January, but held off. Glock has set the department out with a dealer to trade one for one on new Glock's Some on the department will also be getting the model 30 or 36. The goal is also the trade in the Kahr's for Glock's. Most of the department is issued Kahr's for backup guns, but also no one carries them.

I will take the option to buy back my glock for $300 before it is traded away.

I was suprised by the decision with the higher cost of ammo, but the Sheriff seems to want a 45 pistol. I'm pushing for a change from Gold Dot to Federal ammo for department carry.

I appears this trade will take place this January after the new budget goes into effect.

I just wanted to comment on the switch to Federal for your issue ammo. Iam assuming your probably looking at the new HST line. Let me tell you this round in 230gr .45 is an outstanding performer. I think your sherrif would be impressed. The tactical bonded line is also outstanding with similar performance to your issue round now (the Gold Dot). But I gotta say you would be doing yourself and your department a favor by checking out Federal's new Tactical Barnes XPB for law enforcement. This round is the absolute wave of the future and the best round to date that I have tested(and I have researched and tested just about everything out there). It consists of a 185gr. all copper Barnes XPB at 1030fps at 436ft/lbs. of energy out of a 5 in barrel. Don't let the lighter bullet fool you penetration is even better than a 230 gr. standard .45 JHP and expands everytime in soft tissue (2 out of 3 coyotes fell instantly to one round while a 3rd was recovered about 20 yards from impact all bullets expanded). This round is expecially good at barrier penetration. It is the only round I have seen to hit sheetmetal and glass and still perform flawlessly. Oh yea and recoil is very mild with this load.
Just a side note, Corbon loads the same bullet in their DPX line at +P velocity (1075fps), but the Federal line seems to be more accurate in the firearms I have tested it in for some reason.

 

[glockman49]

I carry a Glock 35 for duty now but carried a 22 for several years. The level of accuracy from both guns were excellent. The Glocks all shoot well. The guy behind the gun has to have the ability to shoot it well. I love all my 1911 45's but wouldn't trade my 27,23,22, and 35 for anything.

 

[Manan]

Finally a Sheriff with a brain. Congratulations on the upgrade!!!!!!

 

[Kick]

I carried a Glock 35 from as soon as it came out until recently. Now most of the guys on my department carry the 21 or the 21SF. I carry the regular 21 because I have big hands. I've shot quite a few rounds through the SF's and have no problem with them. The grips are right in the middle of a regular 21 and a 22/17.

They are both great guns and I think it all comes down to individual preference.