Defense Scenario

[Valvestate]

If he was on the side by your door, you might be able to use your door with a kick. Probably won't deter the guy from continuing, but it could give you time to fire up the vehicle and peel out of there.

 

[Valvestate]

Is you and your friends situation awareness so lacking that neither one of you noticed a shady looking character walking in your direction then between your 2 trucks?

This would have given you more than enough time to alert each other of the possible incoming threat, start your vehicles and get them into gear on the off chance that you needed to make a speedy getaway.

why you're asking about a point in time before the BG gets the drop when OP is asking about what to do after the BG gets the drop. Situation is SA already failed to detect BG or BG was hiding very well.


I don't know if you could shoot without a significant chance of shooting your friend. May just give up the truck if swinging the door won't do it.

 

[hokie]

I'd be more worried about missing in the panic than over penetration. I mean yea the guy would be super close but you're looking at one handed point shooting across your body.


Just deck out your truck with glock stickers and whatnot and maybe that'll deter most of the hoodlums

 

[Aaron1776]

I guess somewhere along the line I made it seem like my first instinct would be to shoot. That's definitely not the case. So let's just clear some things up so this doesn't keep happening.

Here's the situation: Engine not running. BG with gun/knife/etc. standing between my truck and buddy's truck. No time to start truck and try and smash him or drive away. No money to give to BG.

So, I hear what you are saying about trying to avoid using lethal force. So my question for you is what would you do in this situation. Would you try to slam your door into him in hopes he might drop his weapon? Would you beg for mercy? Would you attempt to start truck and drive away? Or would you shoot. That's what I want to know.

Obviously I didn't have the answer or I wouldn't be asking. But to me, driving away would be common sense. If the truck was running at the time, I'd have never started this thread because the fact that the trucks were shut off prompted me to consider what my options would have been had this taken a different turn.

This is where FoF training becomes incredibly useful and neccessary.
Given this nasty senario, your first instinct should be to face the threat, getting your guard up and moving your feet off the X. Preferably away from the BG with a knife, thus creating distance, thus creating time. At the same time you should be drawing into the retention position while your other arm moves to block/recieve a knife thrust. (Always better to risk getting your arm slashed/stabbed than your torso) Also a good idea to try and get the truck between you and the BG. Remember the four rules of gun safety. Assume that the rounds are going to over penetrate. If he doesn't **** off when he sees the gun and even makes the slightest movement like he is going to attack then you waste him, doing your best to move backward at an angle so as not to hit your friend, and if he's already moving towards you with the knife you're going to need to shoot him rather than risk a lunging attack.

If he has a gun the response is mostly the same except that you're going to have to start shooting right away as soon as you present on target. No time to let him start plugging you with rounds while you wait to see if he'll run.

Begging for mercy is for the man who wants to die slowly and/or be humiliated before he dies. Get that thought out of your mind pronto. Throwing money at him is also for those who wish to die. Only in the movies does any of that work. You're always, always, always better off resisting.

Decide to resist now. Take some FoF classes (Mindset Lab is in Indy, Suarez Intl hosts them in Indiana) and practice knife vs gun drills with your friends.

Edit: In this senario you have an excellent chance of being shot or stabbed. Which is why I agree with everyone else that using your SA to avoid the senario is a good idea. However, we all slip up, and that's why it's good to think these situations through beforehand AND practice them in FoF. And take heart. There is also a really good chance that he'll miss you, and, if he does hit you, there is an excellent chance that you'll survive.

Oh and if you can use the door to your car, great, but I was kinda assuming the door was locked. Also you would need to think fast and time it just right for it to work.

 

[TheFireArmorer]

Is you and your friends situation awareness so lacking that neither one of you noticed a shady looking character walking in your direction then between your 2 trucks?

This would have given you more than enough time to alert each other of the possible incoming threat, start your vehicles and get them into gear on the off chance that you needed to make a speedy getaway.

He walked from behind my truck with camper shell (the kind with a tiny little window in the back) on the bed which gives me barely any visibility. Plus, we were having a conversation and I wasn't checking my mirrors constantly. If I had been in a bad area then I would have been.

As for my buddy, he's a bit different. He could care less about SA or self-defense. You gotta remember that not everyone cares about the stuff we do. So he didn't say anything about the guy.

So yeah, if I'd have seen the guy or my buddy had said anything at all, then we would have had time to do all that. But, that didn't happen.

 

[AD Marc]

What i'm really trying to convey to you is that in this situation you've described, you've placed yourself so far behind the ball that your prospects are dismal. You are reacting to a threat that is already at contact distance and your ability to move off the line of attack is greatly inhibited. That's not a recipe for winning. I would be less concerned with over penetration and more concerned with how many times you are about to get shot or stabbed.

Your number one goal is to control the opponents weapon and get a position of dominance, if that is even feasible. It's gonna be a bad day regardless.

 

[Aaron1776]

What i'm really trying to convey to you is that in this situation you've described, you've placed yourself so far behind the ball that your prospects are dismal. You are reacting to a threat that is already at contact distance and your ability to move off the line of attack is greatly inhibited. That's not a recipe for winning. I would be less concerned with over penetration and more concerned with how many times you are about to get shot or stabbed.

Your number one goal is to control the opponents weapon and get a position of dominance, if that is even feasible. It's gonna be a bad day regardless.

I definitely agree with being behind the power curve here, and once again urge everyone to find FoF training. It's actually quite likely that, if you find yourself in a violent situation, that it is going to look a lot like this because you let your guard down, hence opening yourself up to the opportunistic criminal. Again, we all slip up. With the right training, violence of action, and cajones, gaining control of the opponent's weapon in this senario/ getting a position of dominance is quite feasible....but not for the unitiated. Without training and "sparring" it would definitely be a bad day at best. With training and FoF experience you might have a reasonable shot of getting out alive and relatively unhurt. This is assuming he has a knife. If he has a gun, he's got you in a shooting alley. Either you or buddy, or both, have a great chance of getting shot. You best put him down fast.

Either way it's going to be messy and there is a decent chance you and I will be meeting face to face in my E.R, but better that than a chalk outline of you in the parking lot.

With that being said, make the decision right now to be a "dedicated opponent". I made that decision a while ago. Yes, you might kill me, but unless you put a bullet in my brainstem or hit me with a .203 grenade launcher, I'm bringing you down with me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Work through it in your mind. How could you make the angles work for you? Lean to the right and fire up? Lean forward and fire backward?

Work through how you got in that situation in your mind. How can you prevent this again? Put the vehicles closer together? Keep your heads moving? Check the mirrors during the conversation. Get in the habit of scanning, even while in a conversation.

So, let's say he's on your right side, you are right handed, and your gun is in a holster at your waist. Laying to the left will inhibit your ability to draw. Your friends instinct, if he's being attacked with an edged weapon will be to lean away from the attacker. If you are perfectly lined up, I would say that pushing your feet down on the floorboard to raise yourself up, draw, and with both hands holding the pistol about head high, fire down into his torso. That will give you the most "meat" for the bullet to travel through and if it does penetrate it will be at the greatest angle to deflect off the metal door instead of penetrate.

If you are the one being attacked, probably the opposite. Draw, lay to the left, and fire up.

This is why I keep a pistol readily accessible with either hand while I'm driving.

 

[Aaron1776]

...If you are perfectly lined up, I would say that pushing your feet down on the floorboard to raise yourself up, draw, and with both hands holding the pistol about head high, fire down into his torso. That will give you the most "meat" for the bullet to travel through and if it does penetrate it will be at the greatest angle to deflect off the metal door instead of penetrate.

If you are the one being attacked, probably the opposite. Draw, lay to the left, and fire up.

This is why I keep a pistol readily accessible with either hand while I'm driving.

You sir are a dedicated and formidable man. lol