Dear Friends of Jobless Americans...

[dross]

I have no problem with hard working immigrants. Whenever someone complains to me that they went to the clinic and their doctor was a foreigner I tell them "That's great. That means we stole a doctor from another country. Now if we could just figure out how to send our drug addicts and welfare frauds to some other country it would be a perfect system."

Big reps, Eddie. We're all immigrants. Our gene pool gets the scrappers, the grinders, the innovators, the fighters.

+1 to you, my friend. I'm willing to compete.

 

[hornadylnl]

And what happens when they come out ahead? Usually, they either drop, or discuss dropping taxes. Cause and effect.

No, they just find something else to spend it on. They don't ever give it back or do with less.

 

[6birds]

No, they just find something else to spend it on. They don't ever give it back or do with less.

Nailed it!!

"SE SAYS-"If you replace them with people who DO pay taxes, it helps to LOWER taxes."

Nope, still laughing.

Merry Christmas

 

[SavageEagle]

No, they just find something else to spend it on. They don't ever give it back or do with less.

Not exactly. If that were true, my hometown and others around it would look more like Carmel. However, that's not the case. I realize our faith in government is nil, but not all government is corrupt and disgraceful.

So keep laughing 6birds. What? Thought you were ALWAYS right? Not hardly. You've yet to prove your blasphemy of me. Ain't it about time you go harass someone else?

 

[6birds]

The same could be said for all of our welfare queen citizens. Can we deport them too?

Can we have that added to the ballot? +1!

 

[eatsnopaste]

How do you figure? As far as I know, all these welfare queens didn't come into this Country Illegally. Can't deport someone on the basis of getting welfare and not trying to get a job.



Ok, let me explain that statement while you're laughing. What happens when people don't pay taxes and tax revenues for a state drop? USUALLY, they either raise or create MORE taxes. Right? Right. And what happens when they come out ahead? Usually, they either drop, or discuss dropping taxes. Cause and effect.

Now say we have X number of illegal's making money who don't pay taxes. They don't pay income tax, they don't pay taxes when they buy a car or home, whatever. Where do you think the tax burden is going to fall? Back on them? Nope, they'll just go back home and come back later with a new fake SSN and do it all over again. BUT... If you take X number of AMERICAN's that DO pay taxes working those jobs, the tax burden gets evened back out. More people not only helping pay taxes, but putting that money back into the community instead of sending it to another Country.

Again, cause and effect. This is what I've personally seen happen in my old home town. I can only assume it's the same principle everywhere else. We had a bunch of illegals come work the Watermelon fields where normally us kids and a few other adults would work. We paid taxes. They did not. Our taxes got raised, as I was told, while the illegals did our work. Not long after we ran them out of town, got our jobs back, taxes came back down. It's truly an amazing concept really.

I'm not sure what form of government you live under SE but for my entire life when a local or state entity has somehow over taxed it's citizens enough to have arrived at a surplus, all it has taken is someone suggesting a new way to spend it to see it disappear.
Can you tell me how I can buy a car or a house without paying taxes? I know the RV companies up here withhold taxes when they pay wages...not sure where it goes....but they take it out for everyone...none that I know of in the local factories gets paid in cash.
oh and as far as getting closer to serving your country,GOOD FOR YOU SIR, now take pride in it when you get there not for what might happen, but kudos for waning to.

 

[Bull]

I agree with Savage on a lot of his points but the "tax not paid" part. From what I have read illegals 2 years ago paid in about 66 billion in social security and medicare under false SS #, they will not be able to collect either at retirement age so our government has no problem with them being here, they send money home that helps their economy so there government has no problem with it.
There are illeagles and Americans here that work for cash under the table that don't pay taxes.

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm not sure what form of government you live under SE but for my entire life when a local or state entity has somehow over taxed it's citizens enough to have arrived at a surplus, all it has taken is someone suggesting a new way to spend it to see it disappear.
Can you tell me how I can buy a car or a house without paying taxes? I know the RV companies up here withhold taxes when they pay wages...not sure where it goes....but they take it out for everyone...none that I know of in the local factories gets paid in cash.
oh and as far as getting closer to serving your country,GOOD FOR YOU SIR, now take pride in it when you get there not for what might happen, but kudos for waning to.

First, thanks for the kudos, but I'm not there yet. Working very hard at it though.

Now, on to your point about illegals not paying taxes... If they have no SS#, but a worker's visa or if they're just "visiting" as some claim, they can by-pass paying sales tax. My friend's family who owned a used car lot in IL told me that every year a couple Mexicans would come up and buy cars off of him. They would buy them here, cheap, and resell them in Mexico. They paid NO sales tax at all. Apparently many of them get away with this.

I agree with Savage on a lot of his points but the "tax not paid" part. From what I have read illegals 2 years ago paid in about 66 billion in social security and medicare under false SS #, they will not be able to collect either at retirement age so our government has no problem with them being here, they send money home that helps their economy so there government has no problem with it.
There are illeagles and Americans here that work for cash under the table that don't pay taxes.

That's the kicker right there. While there are many Americans that work under the table, almost all illegals that work in farming do not get paid regular wages either. The farmers' just simply don't turn them in as labor so to avoid paying taxes on them. That's how the watermelon farmers in So. In. did it. They had to pay taxes on us because we required either cash or a check and claimed our wages on our parents tax forms. Or, well, my parents handled it back then, so I'm not sure how it was done, but I know I got money at tax time.

REGARDLESS, I'm just speaking to what I experienced growing up. And this was in a predominately Democratic County. REAL democrats, and not these greedy socialists we have today.

Now, you can call me a liar or laugh at me and tell me that's not how it happened, but that's how it happened. I don't really care if you believe me or not, I'm just passing it along.

I'm sure when it comes to the state level, however, things are much different as the greed is 100000x's worse. Regardless, well, whatever. Take what I said for what it's worth. If your think it's worth nothing, well, ok. I'm done with this thread. I hate arguing and I'm going to have a shot.

Anyone wanna take a shot with me?

Cheers!

 

[Bull]

Sure Savage, but make mine a double

 

[6birds]

"My friend's family who owned a used car lot in IL told me that every year a couple Mexicans would come up and buy cars off of him. They would buy them here, cheap, and resell them in Mexico. They paid NO sales tax at all."

So if your from Mexico, you don't pay taxes when you buy something at a dealership? Really? Explain how that works please.

And when you get some free time later, I'd love to hear the story about "Not long after we ran them out of town, got our jobs back, taxes came back down."

Where you wearing tactical pants and a bandolier? Did BA and Murdock help?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So if your from Mexico, you don't pay taxes when you buy something at a dealership? Really? Explain how that works please.

I can explain how it might work. Not sure about currently but it used to be when you bought a car at a dealership in IL as an IN resident you could pay the sale tax there or at the bmv in IN when you registered it. In fact a lot of dealers wouldn't collect the tax unless you demanded it because for car sales the sales tax had to be forwarded to IN so it created extra paperwork for them. It still works that way for private sales in state or out of state.

So if they had a IN dl, they could buy the car get the temporary plate and drive it down south without registering it in IN.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can explain how it might work. Not sure about currently but it used to be when you bought a car at a dealership in IL as an IN resident you could pay the sale tax there or at the bmv in IN when you registered it. In fact a lot of dealers wouldn't collect the tax unless you demanded it because for car sales the sales tax had to be forwarded to IN so it created extra paperwork for them. It still works that way for private sales in state or out of state.

So if they had a IN dl, they could buy the car get the temporary plate and drive it down south without registering it in IN.

Why are we paying sales tax multiple times on a used vehicle bought in a private sale? 1 vehicle may have 10 owners before it is crushed so think about how much tax revenue they are getting off of 1 car.

 

[OneBadV8]

The same could be said for all of our welfare queen citizens. Can we deport them too?

I wouldn't mind seeing this happen. There shouldn't be any government sponsored Charity. If I want to be selfish and not give to the needy, I shouldn't be forced to through taxes.

 

[6birds]

I can explain how it might work. Not sure about currently but it used to be when you bought a car at a dealership in IL as an IN resident you could pay the sale tax there or at the bmv in IN when you registered it. In fact a lot of dealers wouldn't collect the tax unless you demanded it because for car sales the sales tax had to be forwarded to IN so it created extra paperwork for them. It still works that way for private sales in state or out of state.

So if they had a IN dl, they could buy the car get the temporary plate and drive it down south without registering it in IN.

Thanks for the explaination. I doubt these "illegals" as he explained were residents of Indiana, with an Indiana DL.

But even so, it sounds like that loophole is built into the system, illegal aliens and my brother-in-law can do it. It is not some inherent advantage for a class or race, anyone can screw the state.

If the state wants the tax dollars back, they have a path to do so. It's their system, if they want to leave the loophole open, let them.

I'd still love to hear about "running them out of town". Sounds neat!

 

[6birds]

Why are we paying sales tax multiple times on a used vehicle bought in a private sale? 1 vehicle may have 10 owners before it is crushed so think about how much tax revenue they are getting off of 1 car.

For the same reason I pay taxes on the money I earn through payroll, then again on investments, then again when using to purchse. They love to tax.

Don't worry, SE promised if we make the icky people go away, "If you replace them with people who DO pay taxes, it helps to LOWER taxes."

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Thanks for the explaination. I doubt these "illegals" as he explained were residents of Indiana, with an Indiana DL.

But even so, it sounds like that loophole is built into the system, illegal aliens and my brother-in-law can do it. It is not some inherent advantage for a class or race, anyone can screw the state.

If the state wants the tax dollars back, they have a path to do so. It's their system, if they want to leave the loophole open, let them.

I'd still love to hear about "running them out of town". Sounds neat!

I don't doubt that they were IN 'residents' or that they had an IN DL, I knew an illegal that had 2 or 3 IN DLs, he was talking about one time he got pulled over and gave the officer the wrong one, the name on the DL didn't match the one on his shirt so he tried to make sure that the cop didn't get a good look at his name tag.

And for running them out of town, I'm sure it wasn't it isn't the one I know about, but a subdivision ran out a bunch of illegals that the contractors were hiring.

IIRC it was a newer subdivision with a lot of building going on and the residents were pissed about all the trash the workers(large percentage of illegals) were just dropping on the ground and was being blown around, they complained to the contractors and got nowhere. So they formed a citizens 'watch group' with the initials INS, they asked for permision from the Immigration and Naturalization Services to use the abbreviation INS and were granted it(iirc INS laughed about it and said go for it) they then started doing community patrols with INS on their shirts and hats, needless to say the contractors lost 80% of their workforce. They then made sure that all trash was picked up.

There are legal ways of doing so, local business refusing to provide services to people that can't provide proof of legitmacy. Or refusing to rent to the same or hire etc. The police/fire etc can't do it but private citizens can. It is illegal to discriminate based on race but it is not illegal to discriminate based on not being here legally. Being an illegal alien is not a protected class.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Having worked construction most of my life before my lay off , I understand a little about how both the labor and business sides of construction works .

I'll try to break it down for those who don't and use the construction and labor fields as they pertain to latinos .

General contractors , the companies that remodel your house or build the towns and cities we live in or do your yard work , don't give a rip about the legal status of their sub-contractors , only how cheap they can get the work done .

As long as ONE GUY can speak some english and has a SSN that they can send a 1099 to at the end of the year , that ONE GUY doesn't have to have any other credentials .

A general contractor may (usually) require a retainer of X amount of dollars from that guy , up front , just in case his workers screw something up .

That same guy can buy a SSN as well as other forms of ID "back ally" style , in their communities here in Indy .

With a 1099 , that one guy doesn't have to pay taxes quarterly or at the end of the year on the money he makes here , only on what he buys here .

Remember , his SSN is a "ghost" number and by the time the IRS catches on , he is long gone or working under another number so that there isn't anyone to go after .

That ONE GUY usually has extended family members working and living with him so that they all share living expenses and are able to send untaxed money to their families back home .

Also while they are working , they can get welfare and food stamps because "on paper" , they look poor .

The guys that work for him don't pay taxes on their income either and coupled with the gov handouts they receive , $30-40 K a year is easy to make for each worker .

I can't hate a guy for coming here to make a better life for himself and his family .

However , the thing that PMTFO is that they didn't do any research and find out what the "going rates" were for whatever service they wanted to perform .

They infiltrated many of the fields that don't require any certification and worked for 1/3 of what Americans were getting for the same job .

Couple that with the greed of the mortgage companies and the general contractors , they've destroyed construction in general by providing what the educated , liberal , PC crowd likes to call "less than fair market wage laborers" .

It used to be that a person got out of H.S. , they could learn a trade that would provide for a family , those days are long gone .

The next time you start thinking about how nice all this diversity is and want to call someone racist or a bigot , stop and think about the thousands of your fellow Hoosiers that are directly affected by immigration .

Remember , be nice to folks on your way to the top , you're gonna need'em on your way down .

 

[6birds]

+1 for the explaination on the construction side. My family has run a multi-farm produce and grain operation in Wisconsin and Minnesota, going on the 4th generation. They cannot find people to work the jobs.

Yes, they also have the guy show up with the invisible SSN
Yes, they also have the family show up with the fake ID, usually from a border state they have bought from on the way up.
Yes, they also get the phone call at the end of the year when the IRS tells my father he has paid income taxes to 12 indivuduals who do not exist (and yes, the IRS keeps the money)
Yes, there is simple paperwork to fill out to keep them working until the "paperwork" can be straightened out.

The local "Crime Boss" comes out to inspect, checks the fake ID's, reviews the "pending paperwork" the government has created, and has a glass of lemonade as they discuss the local weather and the upcoming AAA baseball season. They just inspected their own loopholes, to make sure everyone is following the rules, then leaves for the season. "See you next June!"

The Federal government has created loopholes for these people to slip through, with the purposeful intent on allowing the labor for the tasks we want them for (Ag) but denying them an understandable system in which they can operate. Could they stop this. Yes, several ways. Does the government have any intenions to do so? No, never.

Do these people share our community, churches, and schools with us as they work? Yes

Do they show up intending to give you 100% effort? Yes

Do they come back next year with new "ID's"? Yes

Do I think these "aliens" are taking jobs, as so many in this country refuse to work? Maybe in your case (which I hadn't heard before, thank you for that), but not in mine.

 

[dross]

....
I can't hate a guy for coming here to make a better life for himself and his family .

However , the thing that PMTFO is that they didn't do any research and find out what the "going rates" were for whatever service they wanted to perform .

They infiltrated many of the fields that don't require any certification and worked for 1/3 of what Americans were getting for the same job .

Couple that with the greed of the mortgage companies and the general contractors , they've destroyed construction in general by providing what the educated , liberal , PC crowd likes to call "less than fair market wage laborers" .

It used to be that a person got out of H.S. , they could learn a trade that would provide for a family , those days are long gone .

The next time you start thinking about how nice all this diversity is and want to call someone racist or a bigot , stop and think about the thousands of your fellow Hoosiers that are directly affected by immigration .
.....

I can easily see and understand how you could be bothered by this situation. And I do agree we should enforce our laws, but the laws should makes sense.

I don't expect you to agree with me with what I'm about to say, and understand I don't mean anthing personal by this.

As a whole, and especially in the long run, we are better off by getting the best value we can out of the money we spend. This is called productivity, and when productivity is improved, everyone's standard of living improves. If there are other people who can do the work you do, but are willing to do it for less, it's not greed, or cheating the system, it just means that the unemotional market, based on mathematical laws, is letting you know that your servics aren't worth what they once were.

Just as you look for the best deal when you buy a car or a gallon of milk, as a house purchaser, I'm going to look for the best deal. The best value. If the house I want can be built with less expense, I can buy it for less. My agent, the house builder is going to try to keep expenses down as much as he can. Just as you do when you buy a car. This constant pressure to lower prices is what has led to all of the wonderful innovations and has created a world where the poor now have a better lifestyle than the rich did 100 years ago.

The problem with this system is that at given points in history, some people are hurt. When cars came along, harness makers went out of business. When factories made shoes cheap enough that poor people's children could wear shoes year round (a new phenomenom) shoemaker's went out of business. At any given moment in history, we can look at a group of people hurt by improvements and a group who benefits. This is the natural and good way of things, and while I'm sorry you've been hurt by this, overall it's to the good.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I can't hate a guy for coming here to make a better life for himself and his family .

I agree with most of what you said, including this, but where do you draw the line? At crossing the border illegally? At a snatch an grab at a grocery store? Armed robbery? I could make a heck of a better life for my family robbing banks, until I got caught that is. Heck if I went on a rampant crime spree I could make better money hitting gas stations andconvenience stores, or hell just mugging people on the streets. Would you hate me for that? Or at least dislike me and want me punished? The reason I agree with you, is yes I would do the same, I'd even do everything I listed if it meant my families survival, to be totally honest if it was a matter of my family or shooting you(general you) in the face and taking your stuff, yep your face is going to get perforated. But as of now we have laws and the laws state if your in this country illegally your getting deported and its illegal for you to work here.

I can easily see and understand how you could be bothered by this situation. And I do agree we should enforce our laws, but the laws should makes sense.

I don't expect you to agree with me with what I'm about to say, and understand I don't mean anthing personal by this.

As a whole, and especially in the long run, we are better off by getting the best value we can out of the money we spend. This is called productivity, and when productivity is improved, everyone's standard of living improves. If there are other people who can do the work you do, but are willing to do it for less, it's not greed, or cheating the system, it just means that the unemotional market, based on mathematical laws, is letting you know that your servics aren't worth what they once were.

Again agreed except for what about the people that are willing to work for less than "livable" wages, ie 3 or 4 people living in a one bedroom apartment and sending all the cash they earn to another country? Do we get our best value by paying someone 1/4 less if 90% of what we pay leaves the country? How about if we pay them 1/2 and only 75% leaves? I agree with you on principal but not on reality.