Daylight Saving Time

[nonobaddog]

Uhhh, physics has proven that time exists independent of human perception of it

It existed at the beginning of everything of man and will continue to exist long after, it certainly isn't man made

Right, of course, but the units and handles we put on time are man-made and arbitrary.

 

[BugI02]

If something is true, it is true. Evidence is only useful to enlighten the people that do not yet know it is true.

"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

 

[BugI02]

If something is true, it is true. Evidence is only useful to enlighten the people that do not yet know it is true.

 

[nonobaddog]

"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Disagree. That says you can dismiss things that are obviously true like blue skies and wet water. Only fools would do so.

 

[BugI02]

Is 'blue' an intrinsic property? Can you describe it to someone born without sight?

The concept of 'wet' is equally a learned idea rather than an intrinsic property

 

[nonobaddog]

Is 'blue' an intrinsic property? Can you describe it to someone born without sight?

The concept of 'wet' is equally a learned idea rather than an intrinsic property

"Is 'blue' an intrinsic property?" Yes
"Can you describe it to someone born without sight?" Irrelevant

"The concept of 'wet' is equally a learned idea rather than an intrinsic property." Or both - I hope you do not expect me to discuss if water is wet or not, because I would have to disappoint you.

 

[jamil]

Nah. To say that the preference is to have an equal number of daylight hours before work as one might have after work is a straw man here. It is presented as a counter to the argument that some people find pre-work hours useful and productive. It is a ridiculous constraint on the preference to have productive, pre-work, daylight hours.

I fully concede that you have stated your preference to have an equal number of daylight hours before work as you have after work. Duly noted and conceded. How does that statement of preference inform a discussion regarding DST eliminating an actual hour of pre-work daylight, as it does currently, from 11 March - 18 April, and from 27 August - 05 November (approximately) - i.e. for approximately 15 weeks of the year?

I think I see where the disconnect is. I'm not countering.

You said this.

It's not mere semantics. Morning/pre-work daylight hours are useful to me, and I make use of them. I suspect that most people who argue for more evening daylight hours make little to no use of their pre-work hours, daylight or otherwise.

That's fine for you. I said that for me, to make use of morning hours, I'd want it to be the equivalent that I would get with DST hours. This is because to me, it's more practical to have contigous hours of daylight during a workday. So then for mornings to work for me, the sun would have to rise about 4-4.5 hours before I have to stop to get ready for my day job.

How can I make a straw man of your position when I'm not asserting that you hold that position. I'm not saying that you're saying it has to be equal time. I'm saying that I want equal time for it to be practical for me.

One thing that I'm a bit surprised at. And maybe I'm misunderstanding your tone here. I'm having fun with this thread. This really is not a serious topic. It's hilarious that the thread is even still going. And I kinda hope it lasts. Because it's just fun banter back and forth. I mean what I mean, but I'm not taking it seriously. I hope you're not either. And I hope you have fun with it too.

 

[jamil]

Whatever happened to that "Will argue for sammiches" dude?

What kind of sammich are we talking about here? No tuna. I won't argue for a tuna sandwich.

 

[jamil]

For those who make a big deal out of changing some clocks, maybe this would be a good time to start practicing so it is easier when the big day, or night, comes.

Could you suggest some exercises that we can do. Maybe to strengthen fingers and wrists?

 

[jamil]

Agreed. Before I retired (and when I wasn't traveling), I usually arrived at my office between 0600 and 0700 because I found it more productive to do things like answering emails or pre-planning an upcoming project rather than spending twice as long sitting in traffic

Very few were at the office that early and it made for a quiet, efficient environment

Do you need daylight to answer emails. And. Did they actually have email back then?

 

[jamil]

Uhhh, physics has proven that time exists independent of human perception of it

It existed at the beginning of everything of man and will continue to exist long after, it certainly isn't man made

I didn't think that was the point though. The point I got from that was that how we choose to meter time is a social construct. How we choose to make time consistent across a globe
is time zones. There doesn't have to be 24 equal parts in one rotation of the earth. There doesn't have to be time zones. Humans didn't make time. But they did make up how to meter it.

 

[nonobaddog]

Could you suggest some exercises that we can do. Maybe to strengthen fingers and wrists?

Actually playing your guitar is good, although you do have to reverse the strings and play it other-handed for an equal time to get the best results.

 

[jamil]

"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Yes. But neither affects its state of being true or false. Unless you're trying to make some kind of quantum statement.

 

[jamil]

I'll be changing mine Saturday afternoon. That way I'll remember to start drinking an hour earlier than usual.

I usually wait to change the clocks until my mother-in-law starts complaining about it.

 

[jamil]

View attachment 259554

Hmm. I saw a poll either the last time we argued about time, or maybe the time before that. It said something different. I recall the clock flippers weren't nearly as much as 28%. And among the clock absolutists, the DST'ers were a bit more than the ST'ers. Still. Of the possible positions, it's fairly even split, except the clock flippers are still odd.

 

[chef larry]

Nine years later and still going strong. Does anyone really know what time it is?

 

[jamil]

"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Disagree. That says you can dismiss things that are obviously true like blue skies and wet water. Only fools would do so.

Is 'blue' an intrinsic property? Can you describe it to someone born without sight?

The concept of 'wet' is equally a learned idea rather than an intrinsic property

"Is 'blue' an intrinsic property?" Yes
"Can you describe it to someone born without sight?" Irrelevant

"The concept of 'wet' is equally a learned idea rather than an intrinsic property." Or both - I hope you do not expect me to discuss if water is wet or not, because I would have to disappoint you.

This is a way more fascinating topic than ST'ers/DST'ers/clock-flippers arguing.

 

[jamil]

Nine years later and still going strong. Does anyone really know what time it is?

You created a legendary thread. A masterpiece. Congratulations!

It's one of my favorite threads ever.

 

[chef larry]

You created a legendary thread. A masterpiece. Congratulations!

It's one of my favorite threads ever.

Thank you.

 

[nonobaddog]

I don't have real strong feelings in this whole clock issue.
Is there an official libtard position so I can at least be against that?