Damn CPS!!!! At it again!!

[LPMan59]

i posted in this thread

 

[steveh_131]

What should we do with kids we pull out of the homes? Take them to our house? Who manages their family counselling? After we take the kid because their intestine is coming out of their anus from boyfriend raping 18 month old while mom was at work, who makes sure the kid is safe until mom gets her crap together? Who takes care of the 2yr olds while mom is out getting drunk and leaves them alone for a day or so? Or who intervenes with a mom to take the kid away while she gets counseling so I don't have to shoo any more turkey buzzards away from a dead infant at the edge of a creek as they are tearing it apart for food. The academic discussion is quaint. However, having witness these and MUCH more, I can tell you that in real life, DCS has a purpose. Fix it...FINE, but law enforcement is not social services or family counseling...which is the meat of DCS's function. Do away with them is irresponsible and ill informed. Read internet articles all you want about it but until you see it, smell it, are surrounded by it, you really don't understand. But hey, I'm the one that gets to clean up the mess, not you. Nothing like trying to revive a dead 2 week old because aunt let it sleep sitting up in a car seat. Out of sight...out of mind...yours that is.

Denny, I hate to say it but I've heard this same argument from police officers used to promote gun control.

"You're not the one cleaning up the MESS. Until you are, you don't get a say in this!"

The world is an ugly place. You've witnessed more than most. This is not a compelling defense for an ineffective, and actually harmful agency.

I agree with IndyDave. This agency and its unchecked power should not exist. A small portion of its legitimate functions should be handled by the police and the courts and the rest should be done away with.

 

[Trigger Time]

We shouldn't PAY these lowlifes to have kids and more kids. Lets start there! Let's punish deadbeats who milk and abuse the system and commit fraud by having more kids to steal a check from the gubment. And let's stomp these piece of **** parents into the ground who abuse children! I'm talking give them the death penalty if they rape a helpless child or shake them.
i don't think CPS needs to be done away with but I think it needs a major overhaul and major oversight! More so than now.
and to Denny, I'm sorry you have to see that **** and clean up after these pieces of ****! You and your colleges are more controlled and men than me. I'd be in jail and I know that's not the proper way to handle it but I just don't have the proper restraint for that kind of ****. Spit in my face and I can control myself, but hurt a child or a woman, no.
im glad you do it. So a sincere thank you from me!

 

[turnandshoot4]

Denny, I hate to say it but I've heard this same argument from police officers used to promote gun control.

"You're not the one cleaning up the MESS. Until you are, you don't get a say in this!"

The world is an ugly place. You've witnessed more than most. This is not a compelling defense for an ineffective, and actually harmful agency.

I agree with IndyDave. This agency and its unchecked power should not exist. A small portion of its legitimate functions should be handled by the police and the courts and the rest should be done away with.

I don't understand how "fiscal responsibility" can be preached yet people want to put more on the police. Every time I've worked with CPS they have only had the kids best interest in mind. I am not talking about theoretical cases, these were real kids that had been beaten, raped, or worse. Most recently a woman walked in with two children that were incredibly dirty. She said, "I am hearing voices. I am thinking about to killing my kids." CPS came in and put them into a safe environment. Please show me the malevolence.

I agree that unchecked power is never good but ultimately they have to answer to SOMEONE.

What would you say the answer is then? Plenty of talk about what shouldn't be but no answers.

 

[VUPDblue]

It seems that most who want to put such matters on the police and the courts would be the same ones who believe the police and courts do too much as it is and want to cut their funding and/or restrict their authority.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A small portion of its legitimate functions should be handled by the police and the courts and the rest should be done away with.

Umm, the courts and (often) the police are involved now.

So, you wave a magic wand and abolish CPS/DCS/EIEIO, what do you think the courts will do but recreate CPS/DCS/EIEIO?

 

[CarmelHP]

Like I said, we'll never see eye to eye. I just know that without all that rampant socialism I wouldn't be alive to type this, and I think despite my crooked and con-mannish ways I've been a pretty positive contributor to society over the years and more than paid back what I ate in government commodities and food stamps.

As long as you want to substitute your feelings for any semblance of logic we will not see eye to eye. Every crook thinks that they're really good at heart and did no real harm and really deserved what they took because they really, really needed it.

 

[GPD177]

1. As long as I am paying taxes for this s**t, I have an opinion, am entitled to it, and if you really think you have a right to declare the conversation off limits to anyone, you can go bugger yourself on a fencepost.

2. CPS should be abolished. There should be no such thing as any agency operating outside the scope of conventional due process given the usurped power to arbitrarily take people's children. Referring back to your statement 'if you had seen the things I have seen', I have seen these worthless MFSBs wreck innocent lives and (the same individuals mind you) ignore problems that are absolutely intolerable. Don't give me that hero worship s**t.

3. It isn't about hate of authority. It is about not accepting usurped authority that operates outside of any recognizable form of due process. Big difference there genius.

4. How about a really novel idea like police getting a warrant and acting appropriately in the event that there is probable cause to believe illegal activity is taking place?

Indy Dave***,,I just returned to this thread and had list of responses to your post above. I was going to reply, but many of the others ( esp Denny) have responded with more eloquence than I probably would have had. That being said, I was not trying to shut down your conversation or your opinion, although I do disagree with it though.

I am however touched with you concern for my sexual activities. I usually stick to male-female relations, but since you seem to be big on buggering fencepost I am open minded enough to listen. Is that something you do often? Do you have any special techniques or moves? Could you possibly make a you tube video so the rest of could see your technique in action? It might help to clarify wether I and others would be willing to try that.

 

[Denny347]

.

Don't worry brother, it is quite impossible to break through the sterility of the internet. This is an academic conversation and as such will not evolve past that. It it hard to put the horrors seen into words on a forum. That's ok, it's part of the job. For the sceptics, DCS RARELY takes kids. Of the hundreds of DCS runs I've taken over the years only a handful warranted removal. They focus on parenting classes, family counseling, and life skills. "No, it's not ok to let your kids eat dog crap." "Yes, we will assist you in getting your house, pest free." "Changing a baby's diaper once a day is NOT good for your baby." "No, 2yr olds cannot be left by themselves overnight in your local no-tell motel."

 

[j706]

I have to say I am kinda miffed by some of the comments on this matter. I get it that many folks don't like some government entity messing with people. Like others here I am not a big fan of CPS because they do overstep their authority at times. But when we run across these types of situations they are who we turn to. There are not many options for us. I can tell every one here and now, whether they agree or not, each and every time I run across these types of incidents like the one described I AM going to be doing something. There is no way in hell I will ever walk away from some little guys that are in need of proper care...ever! Ridicule me, sue me or whatever because I don't give a flip when it comes to these little guys that can't fend for themselves.

For everyone of these cases you read about there are probably 10k more of them. There is a huge difference between being poor, living in a run down home than being poor and living in a rundown nasty home. There is absolutely no excuse for a kid to be living in nasty living conditions. Any parents subjecting their kids to a nasty home has more issues than being poor. I have been in many a so called home that will make to want to puke before crossing the threshold of the front door. There is absolutely no excuse for that.

 

[Denny347]

1. As long as I am paying taxes for this s**t, I have an opinion, am entitled to it, and if you really think you have a right to declare the conversation off limits to anyone, you can go bugger yourself on a fencepost.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It seems that most who want to put such matters on the police and the courts would be the same ones who believe the police and courts do too much as it is and want to cut their funding and/or restrict their authority.

There are two different issues here. First is that of the police and courts engaging in activity beyond that which is proper, which does happen both in principle and in form. The other is that if places are to be searched and people taken into custody, this is a proper function of the police to be performed according to due process.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I take it by your silence that you do respect the opinion of someone on the public payroll who says that anyone who does not personally deal with such situations needs to 'shut the f**k up'?

 

[Bunnykid68]

what did I miss?

 

[88GT]

88GT- Then what would be? Wait until there is an injury or worse? What would you have done if you witnessed this?
I truly am curious what anybody here would have done.

Bob

Yes, I think the appropriate response is to wait until there is a injury or worse. It's distasteful and it turns my stomach, but I can tolerate less the erosion of parental rights in the name of "for the children" at the behest of the state.

The problem I see with the main flavor of support for CPS in this thread is that people have a problem with bad parents who do things to harm their children. Who doesn't? But what constitutes harm? I've read one INGOer say that teaching a brand of science that doesn't worship at the altar of evolution is forever damaging the kid's ability to be successful in life. (Let's not turn this into that debate though.) Some INGOers think that anything less that going bankrupt seeking modern medical treatment for illness is neglect or abuse. I think that enrolling children in the state indoctrination centers commonly referred to as public "schools" is one of the most dangerous things you can do to a child as there is no quicker way to destroy a love of learning and knowledge than to turn it into one giant standardized test prep experience. (And have you seen the things that happen on those buses?) Just upthread someone complained about parents smoking around their children. I think driving econoboxes or anything less than an equivalent to my 8-9000# vehicle is putting them at risk. Why is one opinion of what constitutes harm more valid than another? When will firearms be harmful? When will anything but a government-approved diet be harmful? When will homeschooling be harmful? Barring a use of force to CAUSE/CREATE physical harm/injury/death, I think government should stay the **** out of parental choices.

On INGO kids don't have rights and should not be protected unless they are undeveloped fetuses... then they have all rights. Once they take that first breath they then become 100% expendable at the wish of whomever decided to give birth.

Children have rights. Whoever said they didn't?

She was clearly referring to what she believes the government should view her children as. Not how she views them.

I think it's a little silly to question the love of a mother who has made the choice to spend her life raising her children instead of handing them off to government bureaucrats, and clearly does a heck of a job of it.

Oh, I view them as chattel. I'm all the time trying to sell them to the highest bidder. But I can't get any takers.

In all seriousness, thank you.

Oh, quit your belly-aching. You opened this thread with a straw-man and got called out for it. This may be a lively discussion, but it's plenty civil for grown ups.

It's a yawner by INGO standards.

I got a few complaints *from* CPS workers when I worked the street. They didn't like how I conducted business in relationship to the way they conducted theirs, I suppose. That said, there's a lot of lousy parents out there and its not the kids' fault their parents are screw ups. If you don't think society has an interest in keeping children safe, we'll likely never see eye to eye. None of us are an island, and those kids are going to grow up to inhabit the exact same world your kids are. Then our kids can sit on the Internet and ***** about how lazy those kids are working fast food or being petty thugs.

Is that your justification for CPS? Lousy parents have existed since time immemorial. But what you think is lousy and what I think is lousy might be delineated on a different line. I have a friend with 2 little boys roughly the same age as my boys. I like her well enough, but her children are simply hellions. She bribes them with food and provides no real discipline to correct their behavior. Is that sufficient for involving CPS? Why/why not?

Like I said, we'll never see eye to eye. I just know that without all that rampant socialism I wouldn't be alive to type this, and I think despite my crooked and con-mannish ways I've been a pretty positive contributor to society over the years and more than paid back what I ate in government commodities and food stamps.

Logical fallacy. First, you can't know without a doubt that your death was inevitable absent any intrusion into the circumstances. Second, whether or not you actually would have died absent any intrusion, you cannot know that there wouldn't have been alternatives to the state. You can offer a guess about what might have been, you can point to a positive outcome when the intrusion was state-generated, but you cannot logically support your position because, unless you're God, you cannot know what an alternative future would have been.

 

[lucky4034]

Children have rights. Whoever said they didn't?

Anyone who uses the ridiculous blanket statement "they are my kids I will [insert oppressive act of choice] if I want to".

 

[88GT]

Anyone who uses the ridiculous blanket statement "they are my kids I will [insert oppressive act of choice] if I want to".

And by oppressive, you mean anything with which you disagree. I understand. Freedom for others as long as they do it your way.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Anyone who uses the ridiculous blanket statement "they are my kids I will [insert oppressive act of choice] if I want to".

They are my kids. Not your problem.

 

[Denny347]

I take it by your silence that you do respect the opinion of someone on the public payroll who says that anyone who does not personally deal with such situations needs to 'shut the f**k up'?

No, I respect the opinions of those who DO over those who DON'T because we might actually know what we are talking about. Solutions are easy over the internet but become MUCH more difficult when YOU are the one tasked to deal with this stuff. "Looks good on paper", means little when applied to real life and that is what these discussions are..."looks good on paper."

 

[churchmouse]

No, I respect the opinions of those who DO over those who DON'T because we might actually know what we are talking about. Solutions are easy over the internet but become MUCH more difficult when YOU are the one tasked to deal with this stuff. "Looks good on paper", means little when applied to real life and that is what these discussions are..."looks good on paper."

Once real people are added to the "Solution" seems like everything changes.

We need an agency to handle these things but they need to be accountable and responsible for what they do. It seems the one we have is not. JMHO.