Colt vs. Olympic Arms AR-15

[Destro]

Is RRA in the same category as Oly/RRA? I thought RRA was standard issue for the DEA. Sure, it's certainly not Colt/DD, but I'd hardly call it a "plinker."

DEA now uses LWRC

 

[LPMan59]

Is RRA in the same category as Oly/RRA? I thought RRA was standard issue for the DEA. Sure, it's certainly not Colt/DD, but I'd hardly call it a "plinker."

RRA won A contract with the DEA. So did Colt and another "Tier 1" that slips my mind. Guess which two companies provided most of the guns?

Regardless, I'd pick one up if the price was right.

 

[Destro]

WOW another uninformed post by you.

Sure there are more bullet choices above 62grains but most of the surplus stuff out there is 62 and below and that is what is most often shot. So to have a twist rate that stabilizes 62grain and lower actually makes a lot of sense, even it if isn't mil-spec, or mall ninja, or whatever. It makes sense because it works for most people. And people who shoot their ARs for varmint hunting or with surplus ammo tend to be using the lighter weight (62 and below) bullets.

As for you comment on Chrome Moly, it simply makes no sense. What the heck are you trying to say? Chrome can't fail in a chrome moly barrel but it can fail in a chrome lined barrel. BTW, it usually doesn't fail from shooting!!!

And for AR's for killing people, well you go ahead and do that, I'm sure the FBI will be knocking on your door soon. Me, I've got a couple set up for hunting 4 legged animals (pigs and deer), some set up for long range shooting, some set up as fun guns with 16" barrels, a couple for personal defense, but each is different and most of mine are purpose built. I've got them in calibers from 22lr to 7.62x39 to 6.5 Grendel to 458 Socom to 5.56 and pistol calibers too. I'm not GI JOE or a Mall Ninja, but I'd gladly stake out any of mine against yours.





RRA is nice stuff. It does not spec out well on "the chart" but that doesn't mean its not good.

Did you even read what I wrote?!?

here we go...
1/9 is best suited for 62 and below
1/7 is best suited for 55 and above

so...if a 1/7 twist will give you more ammo choices, as you admit, than 1/9 (excluding reloaders), how is a 1/9 twist not a shortcoming? I had to hunt around for a few minutes to find .223 below .55, and all I found (granted I only went to 3 sites) was some .40 frangable.

chrome lined > chrome moly only.

 

[mkbar80]

Is RRA in the same category as Oly/RRA? I thought RRA was standard issue for the DEA. Sure, it's certainly not Colt/DD, but I'd hardly call it a "plinker."

I actually own an RRA. It shoots better than I can (most rifles do ), but does not have true 5.56 chamber (even though it is stamped otherwise, it has a wylde chamber. I've heard some of the newer ones might have true 5.56 chambers but mine was purchased in 2004), gas key was barely staked, needed an upgraded extractor, etc. This rifle has hiccuped from time to time on suspect ammo due to the chamber. Another rifle with a 5.56 chamber eats everything. Reaming the chamber, staking the gas key, upgrading the bolt aren't hard to due, but there is a little cost involved if you don't have the parts/tools. Eventually I will replace the upper with a BCM middie. I've had a lot of fun with that RRA.

that said, I'd take the DD or BCM to a high round count class.

 

[ryknoll3]

It's similar to going to a hardware/home improvement store and choosing between the DeWalt cordless tool set and the Black & Decker. If you are a homeowner doing a few DIY projects and run the tools a little on the weekends, the Black & Decker will do just fine for you and paying the extra dough for a DeWalt set won't seem to make much sense. If you are a contractor who uses the tools most every day, the DeWalt is going to last much longer and perform better. There's a reason they charge much more for one over the other, and most of it isn't the name.

Same deal with the rifles.

 

[melensdad]

I actually own an RRA. It shoots better than I can (most rifles do ), but does not have true 5.56 chamber (even though it is stamped otherwise, it has a wylde chamber. ... Reaming the chamber...

Why would you want to ream the "Wylde" chamber?

Most shooters consider it to be the best/most accurate of the 5.56 chambers available and is often favored by accuracy shooters.

 

[Britton]

I am just glad my OLY's can't read. They might get really offended and my post sample OLY M4 might just start to have problems. For now it has been 100%, well that is only about 5K rounds so far.

Hey guys, gun shops make more money the more expensive gun they sell you, would it make sense for them to recommend an OLY then since they are lower priced? I can buy my sons any AR I wanted to, I got them all an OLY M4 and would recommend that to anyone. They work, the problem with Olympic is that they have chosen not to market themselves as they should and not to comply with the silly "chart" circulating around the internet. Instead they rely on word of mouth and lower prices. We sell more OLY's than any other AR, and if they were bad rifles we would know it.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

For the record, I have had no issues firing 75 grain rounds out of my 1:9 Bushmaster. Most of what I buy is 55 grain AE223. I'll be reloading soon though.

 

[jeremy]

I am just glad my OLY's can't read. They might get really offended and my post sample OLY M4 might just start to have problems. For now it has been 100%, well that is only about 5K rounds so far.

Hey guys, gun shops make more money the more expensive gun they sell you, would it make sense for them to recommend an OLY then since they are lower priced? I can buy my sons any AR I wanted to, I got them all an OLY M4 and would recommend that to anyone. They work, the problem with Olympic is that they have chosen not to market themselves as they should and not to comply with the silly "chart" circulating around the internet. Instead they rely on word of mouth and lower prices. We sell more OLY's than any other AR, and if they were bad rifles we would know it.

LOL!

As I said earlier the Oly is a Good AR for Civilian Shooters, who treat them like such....

Would you honestly take an Oly to Iraq as a Frontline Combat piece?!

 

[mvician]

the silly "chart" circulating around the internet.

How is a collection of information "silly"?

 

[Britton]

Would you honestly take an Oly to Iraq as a Frontline Combat piece?!

I would not take any AR/M series at all. Seriously through, the Olympics run. We have ran two fund raisers for politicians using various full auto guns, the AK has actually malfunctioned more than the M4. No, we did not get them muddy and nasty, but on one of the fund raisers it was raining so we left the gun on the left side down with the bolt locked back and dust cover open. Rain was getting into the upper receiver during shooters, the M4 did not miss a beat. Now most shooters in the US really never shoot their guns, most shooters fire less than a few hundred rounds a year and to be honest they would be fine with a any Frankenstein AR.
I do know for a fact that Olympic Arms does sell large quantities of M4's to smaller countries Armies and Navy's and they come back for more, so they are used in battle.

Would I feel comfortable grabbing an Olympic M4 when the Zombies come, sure I would.

 

[Britton]

How is a collection of information "silly"?

It is when it is out of date information and suggests that military standards are better than some civilian standards.

 

[mvician]

It is when it is out of date information and suggests that military standards are better than some civilian standards.

Outdated?
Latest info is straight from the factory.

Interpretation is subjective to the individual. A collection of information from the factory cannot suggest anything.

 

[melensdad]

How is a collection of information "silly"?

It is when it is out of date information and suggests that military standards are better than some civilian standards.

Outdated?
Latest info is straight from the factory.

Interpretation is subjective to the individual. A collection of information from the factory cannot suggest anything.

I've had several conversations with the developer of 'the chart' and as far as the last time (been a while) I checked it, I would say it is up to date.

But the fact that it is up to date means very little when the chart is commonly mis-used by most people who read it. So while "the chart" is probably accurate, it is not commonly used properly by most people who 1) assess quality based on the rankings in the chart, and 2) presume that it applies to entire brands, when it does not.

The chart ONLY reflects ONE simple thing. Is an M4 clone built to "mil spec" standards as defined by the chart. It does NOTHING more than that and it does not represent itself to do any more than that. It is what it is.

That said, people mistakenly mis-use the chart by applying it to other models of AR15 guns to which it is not applicable. Further, by presuming that the 'mil spec' standard is the best, people mis-understand the purpose of the chart and presume that a gun that is not 'mil spec' is somehow inferior when that is not necessarily the case.

Put a broach cut stainless barrel on an M4 style gun, and the chart will mark down that gun despite the fact that a broach cut stainless barrel is clearly superior to the military barrel. Put a free float tube on the forearm, again the chart marks down that gun, again despite the fact that the forearm is superior to the mil-spec standard. Use a "Wylde" chamber on the gun so it is more accurate with a wider range of ammo and the chart will mark down that gun even with a superior chamber because the chamber is not mil-spec. There are dozens of other examples that will be marked down.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'the chart' is flawed, it is what it is, and as I said, last time I checked it it was accurate. Its just that most people simply don't apply it properly. Sadly it is very easy to mis-use the chart and therefore ascribe to it that to which it was not intended. The vast majority of people using the chart have no clue what they are looking at, despite the fact that there are (or were last time I looked) disclaimers suggesting that people should not apply it to anything other than to what it was designed.

 

[Txlur]

Put a broach cut stainless barrel on an M4 style gun, and the chart will mark down that gun despite the fact that a broach cut stainless barrel is clearly superior to the military barrel.

What are your criteria for superiority? If there is an advantage in accuracy, is there a disadvantage in cleaning? Barrel life? Durability? Weight? There are differences, right?

A weapon is a tool, you have to build that tool to the specs that the job requires. I love my chart-following platform, and I would probably love one with a stainless whatever barrel, but which would I reach for, and when?

 

[melensdad]

What are your criteria for superiority? If there is an advantage in accuracy, is there a disadvantage in cleaning? Barrel life? Durability? Weight? There are differences, right?

A weapon is a tool, you have to build that tool to the specs that the job requires. I love my chart-following platform, and I would probably love one with a stainless whatever barrel, but which would I reach for, and when?

Yes, a stainless broach cut barrel is superior for accuracy, durability, barrel life and cleaning. In M4 contour it probably weighs about a 1/2 ounce more, but I've not put one on the scale.

That said, if you have a chart following gun that is fine, I never said there is any problem with that. I simply said the chart is commonly mis-applied by people and that is where the problems come into play. To ascribe quality to the chart guns is not accurate. To ascribe reliability to the chart guns is not accurate. To ascribe 'best build' to chart guns is not accurate. The only thing the chart does, and does it well, is to illustrate which specific M4 clone guns are built to 'mil spec' and it does nothing more.

I suggest to everyone that wants a basic M4 clone to read the chart. But once you decide that deviating away from the M4 guns is a good idea then the chart is simply useless.

To whit I present the most often bypassed disclaimer from the chart itself, the disclaimer prefix that is typically ignored:

Without the information in the explanations below, The Chart(s) that appears at the bottom of this page is all but worthless. It is critical, when considering an M4-pattern carbine, to ensure that you understand the list of features and can figure out for yourself if a specific feature is applicable to your intended use. If a sufficient number of the features below and on The Chart are not applicable to your use, then perhaps an M4-pattern carbine is not the right choice for you.

So, what is an M4-pattern carbine? The true M4 is a select-fire military-issue shortened version of the M16 with a collapsible stock, 14.5" barrel, and flat-top upper (with Picatinny rail system) in place of the old A2 carry handle. obviously what we are discussing here are non-NFA firearms which means that they are not select-fire and have a barrel length of at least 16".

I give Rob a lot of credit for putting up that disclaimer. It is still often misused despite that disclaimer and its actually pretty rare that people don't modify their M4 guns away from chart standards as they become more proficient with the AR platform of guns and that one fact is something that seems to be lost on too many people.

Again, the chart is good. The mis-understanding and mis-use of the chart is what I have issues with when people discuss the chart.

 

[Britton]

Outdated?

Last time I looked it was, but that was about 8 months ago so it may be correct now.

 

[Destro]

.

still waiting

 

[12many]

I am just glad my OLY's can't read. They might get really offended and my post sample OLY M4 might just start to have problems. For now it has been 100%, well that is only about 5K rounds so far.

Hey guys, gun shops make more money the more expensive gun they sell you, would it make sense for them to recommend an OLY then since they are lower priced? I can buy my sons any AR I wanted to, I got them all an OLY M4 and would recommend that to anyone. They work, the problem with Olympic is that they have chosen not to market themselves as they should and not to comply with the silly "chart" circulating around the internet. Instead they rely on word of mouth and lower prices. We sell more OLY's than any other AR, and if they were bad rifles we would know it.

What a great site INGO is. What a great thread this is. I first got hooked on the black guns with a $500 Oly that was a great gun and ran like a champ for me. I didn't put thousands of rounds thru it, but threw my share of lead down range. I sold it to a LEO that was looking for the particular model I had for the accuracy and bought another one to get me hands on a old style A4 CAR upper which I place on top of a Plum Crazy composite lower. What a light, cool and so far great rifle. It is lots of fun and just the other day my son and I took it to a friends farm to help him kill an old K-car. With about 300-400 rounds so far it has been a champ ( I know that is not a lot by many standards, but it was a fun afternoon for us). I would love to have a colt (my buddy has and old pre-ban, green label, H-Bar that he has hardly ever had it out of the box), but economics sent me down the Oly road and so far it has been pretty good to me, if not very addicting.

 

[12many]

For my plinking my oly is great. I don't shoot it that much but it always goes bang and tosses the brass.

Right on man, I'll drink that kool-aid. My Oly does what I ask it to do. Do you think this will stoke the flames