Church Plans Quran Burning on Sept. 11th

[Blackhawk2001]

I see some screen names here I haven't seen before (could be it's just because I'm a new guy) and I've seen some names of folks with whom I've had the pleasure to trade words in other topics. Let me point out that your condemnation of NordicHeathenVinlander isn't doing a thing to convert him or his views, nor is it helping him to see the "error of his ways". How Christlike is that? You can condemn his ideas, if you like, but you folks are condemning him. So which one of you wants to throw that first stone?

 

[Son of Liberty]

Two theological & historical experts here, I have questions.


Could you explain the treatment of Christians in Islamic Nations?

Or perhaps Allahs' feeling on Jesus, Christianity or those who do NOT practice Islam?


In Europe, Muslims are raping and murdering Christians for NOT BEING MUSLIMS, Demanding Sheria law, entitlement politic's etc.

I highly think Jesus would reject all aspects of the foundation of Islam, and it's pedophile Founder.

I also think that since Muslims have declared Jihad against the West (Christians) that Christians are obligated by duty to put down the Bible, and pick up the proberbiable sword, and expell all expressions of Muslinsanity from the WESTERN (Christian) lands.

You teach your kids, that two wrongs make a right?

 

[Son of Liberty]

Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, but he didn't condemn the soldier, either. Not everyone is given the grace to be a martyr or to suffer humiliation in His Name and if you will not fight the Islamist, you will definitely Submit to him at some point - that's the main tenet of Islam.

You presumably have no moral objections to killing another in defense of yourself or someone else or you would find somewhere else to spend your time than on this forum, so why would you object to killing terrorists (who have no compunction about killing you, but would rather kill your wife and children) as a policy?

Where I take issue with this particular church, and some of my fellows on the forum, is that we shouldn't be killing anyone out of hate and we shouldn't be deliberately inciting _anyone_ through an act of hate. If we bury some terrorists in pigskin (as has been suggested elsewhere), we should be doing it as a cold-blooded deterrent, not as a payback. Hate blinds us and impedes us from dealing efficiently with those who would harm us, and too much hatred stunts us spiritually and even physically.

Like Sun Tzu said, dont hate your enemy, hate clouds your judgement.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I may disagree all to heck with NHV. And I do. I will defend his right to say what he pleases. He has that right. I don't see anyone here taking that right away.

He even has the right to burn books if he so chooses - and he owns them.

Just because one has the right - does not necessarily make it the right thing to do.

People disagree... sometimes vehemently.

Stuff happens.

 

[Steeler]

I don`t attend church, but I`d be happy to be a part of the burnin.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Read my posts. I'm as hard on Islam's political aspects and its radical adherents AND their apologists as anyone.

Political aspects? I dont know of ANY other religion which demonstrates such a Religious Nationalist belief, that where ever they MUST GO, THEY CANNOT CONFORM TO THE HOST NATION THEY RESIDE, BUT MUCH CHANGE IT.

Burning books is disgusting.

So burning a book full of real life hatred, evil and overall demonic ideals is disgusting? Dross, explain.


NOTHING GOOD EVER CAME FROM ISLAM. NOTHING.

That pretty little Mosque, is an original Christian temple.
Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You REFUTE them through intellectual argument, you don't burn them.

Um, how about realistic advise. Muslims will NOT argue they're book with you, especially an infidal.

Also, your association with stormfag and your posts there reveal your colors. I'm disgusted by you. YOU are the enemy.

That's fine, Dross. Be disgusted with me, you sound like your are emotionally unstable. My true colors? It's called UNDISPUTABLE FACTS.

Im the enemy... Well, if Im the enemy, then you are certainly the enemy of the Founding Fathers. As I do support them in they're original intent and desires.

Never again. Or would you prefer, "Arbeit macht frei"

Be about your Trotskist ways.

Yet when Jesus sent the Disciples out the second time, he told them to bring their swords. Certainly Muslims can be saved, if they're willing. Go over to England and proselytize them and you'll be arrested (same for Detroit, apparently). Do the same thing in Saudi Arabia - they'll kill you. Thank God we have good Christians who are willing to be Martyrs, if necessary, to spread the Good News. But it's unlawful to do it throughout most of the Middle East.

I know this. Many here in America are absolutely clueless to the real world. It's unfortunate that I cannot afford to bus these folks to the middle east, let them experience muslims hatred for Christians first hand.

It's unfortunate that they cannot google Islam or the Koran.

Instead they rather attack someone who would unconditionally try to save Christians from the deadly mistake they are making.

I agree, brother. LOOK AT ENGLAND... LOOK AT SCANDINAVIA.
LOOK AT IRAN.


JUST FREAKING LOOK, BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

 

[chizzle]

Stand up and be counted.

I see some screen names here I haven't seen before (could be it's just because I'm a new guy) and I've seen some names of folks with whom I've had the pleasure to trade words in other topics. Let me point out that your condemnation of NordicHeathenVinlander isn't doing a thing to convert him or his views, nor is it helping him to see the "error of his ways". How Christlike is that? You can condemn his ideas, if you like, but you folks are condemning him. So which one of you wants to throw that first stone?

I condemn NordicHeathenVinlander's ideas and recommend that he is banned from INGO. The purpose of INGO, as I understand it, is to promote responsible gun ownership and the shooting sports in Indiana. Words of intolerance from a white supremacist only hurt the cause of responsible gunowners in Indiana, and shrink our potential audience.

 

[88GT]

Burning books is disgusting.

Why? Serious question. Tyrannical men have burned books to keep information from the people. Information that could be used to thwart their evil intentions. Since I highly doubt this particular church is motivated by such goals, I think it's unfair, dishonest, and illogical to characterize them as disgusting or evil. To be sure, it's foolish and risky (from the Christian perspective in terms of following Jesus) to take such actions. It sends the wrong message about Christianity on some level.

I have to ask, if this weren't a church, if this were a group of secular people who recognized the risk to their liberties and their form of self-governance that Islam presents, would the outrage be as intense? I think not. In fact, I'd be willing to bet more than a few who used it as another opportunity to throw a stone at Christianity would have offered to bring the matches.

You REFUTE them through intellectual argument, you don't burn them.

RIF. THey're burning books. NOt the Muslims. And while you're turning blue in the face with facts and figures, they're lining us up in front of cameras to record our spilled blood for posterity. No, thanks. I'd rather send them the message that we will not go peacefully to our demise. If that starts with a little disrespect to their holy book, I'm for it.

Also, your association with stormfag and your posts there reveal your colors. I'm disgusted by you. YOU are the enemy.

Never again. Or would you prefer, "Arbeit macht frei"

There is no shortage of finger pointing around here with regards to who is the enemy in our ranks, is there? Seems to me the only real criterion for being labeled the enemy by some is to hold a different opinion. And it would seem to me that this particular standard was used by an awful lot of bad people throughout history as well.

Why should I not assume you're going to go down the path of genocide and warmongering?

ETA: the above is not an opinion I personally hold. I do not think that passing such holier than thou judgment on others and condemning them for holding different opinions necessarily means you'll turn into an evil bastard with malevolent goals. I was merely taking the opportunity to turn an argument around on those who used it.

 

[jclark]

I guess I don't understand. If you're a Christian, then you believe in one book....
The Bible. The koran(spelling) Is nothing more than the words of a false God.
So what makes it any different than burning a Reader's Digest?
By respecting the Koran are you in a sense turning your back on your God?

I'm not trying to start a crap storm, just trying to understand your collective reasoning.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

I condemn NordicHeathenVinlander's ideas and recommend that he is banned from INGO. The purpose of INGO, as I understand it, is to promote responsible gun ownership and the shooting sports in Indiana. Words of intolerance from a white supremacist only hurt the cause of responsible gunowners in Indiana, and shrink our potential audience.

It's not a matter of intolerance. It's a matter of fact.


Look anywhere Islam has been, it's FUBAR, is that coincidence?

At any rate, I've never advocated irresponsibility of Fire arm ownership.

PEOPLE, TAKE A CLOSE, HARD LOOK AT THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME.

THESE SAME PEOPLE SUPPORT TO DEATH EVERYONE RIGHTS TO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG. BUT WILL ATTACK YOU IN A VILE MANNER, IF YOU POST AN ARTICLE ABOUT A CHURCH BURNING THE KORAN.


LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE CLOSELY. Ask them why it's OK to burn the flag, but all heck will break loose if you burn afew disgusting books from Islam.

ON THE DAY THIS NATION WAS ATTACKED BY MUSLIMS.

 

[Son of Liberty]

Jews, muslims, christians, witnesses, all worship the same God.
Just with different interpertations.
The real difference between them is Jesus, and wether he was God. Or the son of God.

By respecting the Quarn or any other religions holy books and artifacts, you are respecting America, and the American way of life.
You don't have to be an ass to someone elses religion, just because you don't agree with it.

 

[Joe Williams]

Christ didn't teach this.

No. This will just inspire anger and mistrust, and will hinder any chance of bringing the followers of the Koran to Christ, which is our duty as Christians.

They have the right to do it, but it's pure hatred. We all sin, but we must try harder than that.

 

[nawainwright]

SPICY discussion, I love it! What no one has yet pointed out is what has happened Biblically to support such a thing. I will pull from the New Testament, book of Acts, chapter 19....ahem....

"18Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. 19A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas. 20In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power."

Now, I do feel compelled to point out, before someone else does, these were people who had changed their beliefs from pagan practices to follow Christ. I makes it a little different, but to put in perspective they burned books that totaled 137 years of the average persons salary, ballpark 4.8 million dollars (average) in today's dollar.

I also feel compelled to point out that there is no WAY Jesus could have taught specifically how to deal with Islam as it appeared nearly 600 years after Christ's death and resurrection. True, there are many similar examples of dealing with people who believe differently.

It is also important to note, I could care less, I just want to add a Biblical perspective

 

[Joe Williams]

Let's be realistic, the Army isnt equiping Soldiers with Bibles to fight Muslims in Iraq or Astan.

I think many here are living in an unrealistic world, and probably following Churchanity, instead of Christianity.

Jesus would not endorse this demonic religion. The fact that they have declared Jihad against the West ought to be enough for Christians to realize, but appearantly not. He would reach out to them, as his followers did to Gentiles. In fact, he died for them. The only temple he attacked was his own, which had been perverted.

It's sad to see so many Christians who endorse turn the other cheek, when someone else is loading they're gun to kill them.

You are right. Jesus would reject Islam, as he would any religion that does not accept Him as our sole Christ and Savior. However, he would not advocate acts of hatred toward them.

Yes, we must currently fight a war against people who happen to be Muslims, but NOT because of their religion. We must fight because they have engaged in a war of conquest, and we have the right and duty to defend ourselves.

If a mosque engaged in Bible burning, we would have no trouble seeing the hatred and bigotry in the act. This is no different just because the people doing the burning call themselves Christians. They are hindering our commandment to spread Christs word, and that means they are sinning.

 

[88GT]

Jews, muslims, christians, witnesses, all worship the same God.
Just with different interpertations.
The real difference between them is Jesus, and wether he was God. Or the son of God.

By respecting the Quarn or any other religions holy books and artifacts, you are respecting America, and the American way of life.
You don't have to be an ass to someone elses religion, just because you don't agree with it.

For your premise to be true, it would require that same single God to have two distinct and completely contradictory holy books (for the sake of simplicity) written in his name.

There is no interpretation. It either correct or it is not. Since they hold opposing views, they can't both be correct. Ergo, they cannot both be for the same God.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i could care less if its korans or bibles. its a freaking piece of paper. as long as people arent burning churches down then they arent harming no one else. no one has a problem with businesses making HUGE profits off of marketing and selling copies of the bible, so why care if they get destroyed? people have no problem burning things to do with satan. satan is some peoples religion too isnt he?? these people are just trying to get a rise out of people, and obviously its working.

now if they were rounding up people and forcing them to turn over their koran or bible, then that is wrong.

 

[Son of Liberty]

It's not a matter of intolerance. It's a matter of fact.


Look anywhere Islam has been, it's FUBAR, is that coincidence?

At any rate, I've never advocated irresponsibility of Fire arm ownership.

PEOPLE, TAKE A CLOSE, HARD LOOK AT THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME.

THESE SAME PEOPLE SUPPORT TO DEATH EVERYONE RIGHTS TO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG. BUT WILL ATTACK YOU IN A VILE MANNER, IF YOU POST AN ARTICLE ABOUT A CHURCH BURNING THE KORAN.


LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE CLOSELY. Ask them why it's OK to burn the flag, but all heck will break loose if you burn afew disgusting books from Islam.

ON THE DAY THIS NATION WAS ATTACKED BY MUSLIMS.

So now you are resorting to "computer yelling"?
I and most of the people on this site, will defend everyones right to burn the American flag, or any other flag or book that exist.
However, like previously stated by someone else, just because you have the right to do something, dosent make it right.

You should follow Sun Tzu's advice and learn to hate your enemy.
It seems to me that you view muslims as the enemy. Correct?

Your hatred of muslims has blinded you from seeing the true goal of osama's 9\11 attacks.
His wanted exactly whats going on now, an all out hatred and mistrust of muslims, so that we would wage war with them on their turf, where they would attempt to wear us down, and make the cost of war in money blood and sweat, so high that we would give up and they (extremist) can claim victory.

It's not hard to win a war when you cause all the citizens of the cede nation to mistrust one another, there are plenty of muslims, who are very patrotic Americans who love this land, but are under attack by there own brothers and sisters.

Focus on the enemy, not his propaganda, the bait he uses to trap you into fighting a religion, instead of the terrorist.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Jews, muslims, christians, witnesses, all worship the same God.

Not quite true. Theologically, the same "Abrahamic" God, in theory, that one God exist.

However, it should be noted that the ancient arabic people, even ancient Hebrews at one time, had multiple Gods.

When the Conversion came, the culture of people helped translated into the religious beliefs; OFCOURSE, we had some really great individuals, and some disgusting evil people, help shape the respective religions.

Judeism & Christianity have perhaps undergone the greatest amount of transformation in acceptance of Modern Western philosophy, undisputeably because of Western philosophy.

Islam was abit stricter in it's politic's, culture and drive.

However, it can be noted that Jesus is NOT the same as Allah.

And if you wish to support this, than I will ask you to explain why God went from being Just, to beautifully graceful, and holy, to wickedly demonic and evil, allowing a prophet who would sex and marry young children.

Doesnt sound like the Christian God I know.

By respecting the Quarn or any other religions holy books and artifacts, you are respecting America, and the American way of life.

I dont think The founders would have every accepted Muslims.

Life is not a one way street. Muslims are waging a religious holy war against India (Hindu) and other religions, but also Christianity, and aside from the obvious, Judeism.

You don't have to be an ass to someone elses religion, just because you don't agree with it.

Tell that to the Christians of Constantinople.

Tell that to the various Hindu Pagans of India

Tell that to the various Zorastinian Pagans of Iran

Tell that to the Christians of Europe.

Islamic hatred of everything non-Islamic is far more relative than the reverse, brother.

 

[Joe Williams]

Those who would burn Korans - would burn Bibles...
they would burn Torahs.
They would even burn Pagans and witches...
or anything else they disagree with at the moment.

Remember that the crowd with torches and axes is fickle...

Be very careful when supporting such things. The crowd that you cheer on, as they harass your "enemy" may well be coming for you - next.
snip

Exactly. Wait till they decide we aren't Christian enough for them....

 

[88GT]

You are right. Jesus would reject Islam, as he would any religion that does not accept Him as our sole Christ and Savior. However, he would not advocate acts of hatred toward them.

Yes, we must currently fight a war against people who happen to be Muslims, but NOT because of their religion. We must fight because they have engaged in a war of conquest, and we have the right and duty to defend ourselves.

If a mosque engaged in Bible burning, we would have no trouble seeing the hatred and bigotry in the act. This is no different just because the people doing the burning call themselves Christians. They are hindering our commandment to spread Christs word, and that means they are sinning.

In that vein, the book burning is questionable. But then you'd have to know what was in the person's heart to be able to say for sure, wouldn't you? Something no one but God knows.

I'd also like to point out that violence and hatred are not necessarily synonymous, in this example or anywhere else. A point forgotten (or conveniently ignored) by some in this discussion.