Church Carry...authorization!

[henktermaat]

Please explain why a beliver needs a gun in church.
Don't you expect the Lord to protect you in his house of worship?
The members of your congregation should be like-minded in their faith.
Do you fear them?
Is your church engaged in libelous or seditious acts? Do you fear actions or reactions from contraions?
Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church?

Uh... you'd want a gun in church for the same reason you'd need one in any other place.

You keep a fire extinguisher right?

 

[rmcrob]

Please explain why a beliver needs a gun in church.
Don't you expect the Lord to protect you in his house of worship?
The members of your congregation should be like-minded in their faith.
Do you fear them?
Is your church engaged in libelous or seditious acts? Do you fear actions or reactions from contraions?
Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church?

It isn't my fellow believers that worry me. I don't fear them. It's the drug-crazed guy who decides to come in to what he thinks is a victim zone that I want to be ready for. I don't fear him, either. But I won't let him kill my brothers and sisters.

 

[agentl074]

So you're saying that, if one person meets those requirements and gets bonded, then he and the folks below him are exempt from the gun-free-zone laws?

Only if they have permission to act by the property owner(s). The licensing/bonding is only for liability purposes from the State. Basically its just like how full time LEO's are under their departments insurance for liability 24/7. This way the church can say yes to you

 

[SirRealism]

Only if they have permission to act by the property owner(s). The licensing/bonding is only for liability purposes from the State. Basically its just like how full time LEO's are under their departments insurance for liability 24/7. This way the church can say yes to you

That makes sense. I had a brain fart, but now I see what you were saying.

 

[agentl074]

That makes sense. I had a brain fart, but now I see what you were saying.

It's all good

 

[hotfarmboy1]

It isn't my fellow believers that worry me. I don't fear them. It's the drug-crazed guy who decides to come in to what he thinks is a victim zone that I want to be ready for. I don't fear him, either. But I won't let him kill my brothers and sisters.

Same here! Plus haven't you heard of some of the church shootings in the news once in a while. Just a month or two ago a man just walked into a church in Illinois and shot down the pastor when the pastor was in the pulpit. I'd rather that not possibly happen to anyone in my church. They are all like family to me. I protect my family...

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church?

Verily I say unto Thee, the Lord has heard your prayers, and has asked me to answer them.

THIS is why:

2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, (Matthew J.) Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Jeanne Assam, a church member volunteering as a church security guard, opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. After suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself.[1]
Assam later stated that "God guided me and protected me [and I] did not think for a minute to run away."[9][5][10][11]

The pastor of the church stated that Assam shot Murray before he entered 50 feet inside the building, after she encountered him in the hallway, and that Assam probably saved "over 100 lives."[12 "

 

[CountryBoy19]

Ok, so I have a question.

My church has a school, but it is a separate building. Would carrying in church be considered carrying at a school, even though they're separate buildings?

 

[cce1302]

Please explain why a beliver needs a gun in church. 1
Don't you expect the Lord to protect you in his house of worship? 2
The members of your congregation should be like-minded in their faith. 3
Do you fear them? 4
Is your church engaged in libelous or seditious acts? 5 Do you fear actions or reactions from contraions? 6
Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church? 7

1. For the same reason anybody needs a gun anywhere.
2. Yes. I pray that the Lord would use me to protect myself and others if it becomes necessary, whether in church or anywhere else.
3. And?
4. No. Do you?
5. No. What does that have to do with anything?
6. No. What is a contraion?
7. I answered that in #1. Why do you, or anybody, need a gun anywhere?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Ok, so I have a question.

My church has a school, but it is a separate building. Would carrying in church be considered carrying at a school, even though they're separate buildings?

Unfortunately...yes. This is MY understanding of Indiana Law, though.

AFAIK, Indiana Code treats "private schools" the same as they do public.

Also, a school is never not a school. For instance, at midnight on July 15th, when there haven't been students in the building for weeks...it's still a school. And "school grounds" rules apply.

-J-

 

[agentl074]

There may be another way around this.... If you don't act as security officers but as protection only (body guards) - then you may be able to get away with just getting a group private bond or insurance for body protection with firearms

[FONT=&quot]VERIFICATION OF LIABILITY INSURANCE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All applicants must submit an original or notarized copy of Certificate of Insurance verifying that the Security Guard Agency will have a liability insurance policy of $100,000. Note that the policy must list the “State of Indiana” as an additional insured on the Certificate of Insurance.[/FONT]

 

[colt45er]

1. For the same reason anybody needs a gun anywhere.
2. Yes. I pray that the Lord would use me to protect myself and others if it becomes necessary, whether in church or anywhere else.
3. And?
4. No. Do you?
5. No. What does that have to do with anything?
6. No. What is a contraion?
7. I answered that in #1. Why do you, or anybody, need a gun anywhere?

I Also pray that the Lord would use me to protect myself and other if necessary. I believe that he has given me the ability to do this! That is my faith.

 

[Lex Concord]

Unfortunately...yes. This is MY understanding of Indiana Law, though.

AFAIK, Indiana Code treats "private schools" the same as they do public.

Also, a school is never not a school. For instance, at midnight on July 15th, when there haven't been students in the building for weeks...it's still a school. And "school grounds" rules apply.

-J-

Yes, but there are exemptions, just be sure to cross-reference with US-18-I-44-922(q) (federal gun free school zones):

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

 

[Roadie]

Please explain why a beliver needs a gun in church.
Don't you expect the Lord to protect you in his house of worship?
The members of your congregation should be like-minded in their faith.
Do you fear them?
Is your church engaged in libelous or seditious acts? Do you fear actions or reactions from contraions?
Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church?

My brother is a Pastor, and every once in a while he preaches a sermon about Faith being an action word, and he always tells this joke:

A farmer is in Iowa during a flood. The river is overflowing, with water surrounding the farmer's home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a 4 wheel drive pickup comes up, The man driving says "Jump in, I'll take you to safety."

The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The 4 wheel drive goes away. The water rises to the second floor. A boat comes up, the man says to the farmer who is now in the second story window, "Jump in, I'll save you."

The farmer again says, "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The boat goes away. Now the water is up to the roof. As The farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer "I'll save you, climb the ladder."

The farmer says "Nope, I put my trust in God."

The helicopter goes away. The water comtinues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof and he drowns.

The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says "What are you doing here?"

The farmer says "I put my trust in you and you let me down!"

God says, "What do you mean, let you down? I sent you a 4 wheel drive pickup, a boat and a helicopter!!!"

The point being, God uses every day things and people to initiate His plan for us. Kind of like in Bruce Almighty. He is passing all these warning signs, and yells out "God give me a sign!"

Carrying a handgun in church is not a lack of Faith in God, it is trusting Him to use you if you are needed.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Carrying a handgun in church is not a lack of Faith in God, it is trusting Him to use you if you are needed.

This is how I see it as well.

There is a very real spiritual component to all of this. I believe that there are indeed unseen forces at work over the minds and souls of everyone that walks this earth.

These battles manifest themselves in incalculable ways.

Can God allow a deranged person to waltz into a church and shoot a pastor? Yes. Do I want it to happen? No. Could God utilize me in a situation like the above? Perhaps.

It could be that God would use this method to call someone "home" in order to serve as a huge wake-up call to the community of believers.

I'm not completely "fatalistic", nor am I completely "free willed".

What Satan means for evil, God can (and does) mean for good.

I suppose what I say next doesn't carry much weight considering my above words: Please let's not this devolve into a spiritual / theology debate, please.

(it's my thread and I'll take it home if I have to!)

-J-

 

[agentl074]

God uses people to work miracles and protect others everyday. Just because you have a physical body does not mean that you can't still be guardian angel

 

[Fargo]

Ok, so I have a question.

My church has a school, but it is a separate building. Would carrying in church be considered carrying at a school, even though they're separate buildings?

I believe that is a question that has not been directly addressed by the courts yet in Indiana. I believe that the courts have given "school" an expansive definition in the context of selling drugs at or near one but I would argue that selling drugs is a very different thing from carrying a handgun with a valid permit.

Also, as the the carry powers of retired LEO's, if they are carrying pursuant to permit then all the usual restrictions apply. However, if they are carrying pursuant to the federal authorizations of H.B. 218 then only the requirements of that section of the federal code apply. While H.B. 218 would allow the state to keep you out of public schools, I don't believe it allows the state to keep you out of private schools.

All the above is simply my opinion and not legal advice.

All the best,


Joe

 

[Bill of Rights]

Please explain why a beliver needs a gun in church.
Don't you expect the Lord to protect you in his house of worship?
The members of your congregation should be like-minded in their faith.
Do you fear them?
Is your church engaged in libelous or seditious acts? Do you fear actions or reactions from contraions?
Pray tell, why do you need a gun in church?

Look up the name "Jeanne Assam" and apply her experience and actions to your questions.

The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Not everyone who comes to church is a parishoner.
If I'm armed, I have no reason to fear another person. (member or otherwise.)
One need not engage in libelous or seditious acts to wish to not be helpless in the face of violence from without or within.
Pray tell, why do you think we have a Bill of Needs rather than a Bill of Rights (which protects those rights granted us by our Creator, in case you forgot.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[agentl074]

I believe that is a question that has not been directly addressed by the courts yet in Indiana. I believe that the courts have given "school" an expansive definition in the context of selling drugs at or near one but I would argue that selling drugs is a very different thing from carrying a handgun with a valid permit.

Also, as the the carry powers of retired LEO's, if they are carrying pursuant to permit then all the usual restrictions apply. However, if they are carrying pursuant to the federal authorizations of H.B. 218 then only the requirements of that section of the federal code apply. While H.B. 218 would allow the state to keep you out of public schools, I don't believe it allows the state to keep you out of private schools.

All the above is simply my opinion and not legal advice.

All the best,


Joe

For retired persons who qualify per the department's policy - doesn't the State cover them for liability? I am sure there is a whole speel about compliance and regs for retired LEO's. I know that technically I could've carried under 218 across State lines as a reserve officer but I would be on my own if I got into a OIS off duty.

Maybe it really all just comes down to liability

 

[bigg cheese]

The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Gotta be honest, Bill. I've always loathed that sentence. I know people who, when they apply this, think that they can do things in and of themselves, and no matter what it is, they expect God to fall in line and "do His part" for you.

Now so I don't hijack the thread.....

I won't say that carrying is right or wrong. There is no moral aspect to it, IMHO. The government has made it a decision for the church, as it should be.

What I can say, is that "Wherever two or more are gathered," there He is, and He works all things together for good. If He is actually there, nothing will happen except by His allowance, and whatever the outcome, I know it will benefit someone.

Like I said, I don't think there is a right answer.