Can You Shoot Him?

[Delmar]

I think car insurance would be your protection against theft. I don't think shooting this guy would be justified unless the situation esclated.

So you want me to take my hard earned money and just give it, to the insurance company, in case someone decides to steal my car. Some help that is!

 

[eirish2001]

So you want me to take my hard earned money and just give it, to the insurance company, in case someone decides to steal my car. Some help that is!

So you shoot the the guy and spend thousands more on court cost and lawyers fees to protect whats yours. Maybe go to jail and lose your job and be out thousands more. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to shoot, I just don't think it's the right thing to do in this situation.

 

[Shay]

So you want me to take my hard earned money and just give it, to the insurance company, in case someone decides to steal my car. Some help that is!

You are an adult. You get to make your own choices and live with the consequences.

 

[Delmar]

You are an adult. You get to make your own choices and live with the consequences.

Oh by the way, I never said I would shoot someone for taking my property. I merely stated that laws preventing me from protecting what is mine, are unjust! I stand by that statement.

 

[Indyal]

I do not think you can shoot him unless he turns and attacks you with the hubcap.

 

[cce1302]

You guys don't carry a drop gun?

 

[DRob]

It's so simple.

If you don't have reason to kill him, you don't have reason to shoot him!

 

[D.Kupp]

I'm going to have to agree with everyone and say no. This was not a forcible felony and shooting him was not reasonable force. I think the best course of action was to get the plate number and call the police with a vehicle and thief description.

My question would be (sorry for asking a question in your question) is what if instead of shooting him I ran after him and decked him. I think thats reasonable...but then his 2 or 3 buddies jumped in and they were all beating me. Could I shoot? I think probably not because I escalated the situation by punching him. If they just plain out attacked me I could shoot?

No, I believe you can "try to stop the theft within reason" and if tackling him is the way you chose to, you are fine.

At that point when three men decide to beat you, you can use deadly force in response to serious bodily injury.

They can't claim self defense of any sort while in the act of committing a felony. I'm assuming your wheels are worth enough (retail) to justify a felony?

In response to your quote "GunLawyer":

"(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:

* * *

(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action."

You need to separate the actual events. You stopping the theif is one event. Two men assaulting you is a new separate act that you have the right to defend yourself against. Do you really think if someone punches you that it's ok for a disparaging number of your friends to then take care of him, because he threw one punch first? No, it's not.

Seriously, you are "GunLawyer". Are you researching, asking for opinions or quizzing?

to HCAman- no it is not legal to shoot a tire. You are not defending yourself or anyone from that tire. ;-)

Finity- you CANNOT use reasonable force when the man is stealing your wheels if he is not using unlawful force on you. Sorry.

 

[D.Kupp]

One thing that I always say is you cannot shoot someone over property. If you protect yourself of another person that is allowed. But never over property. If a person is breaking down your house door then you can defend your castle. But defend wheels on a car nope.

You are mistaken. An automobile is the one piece of property you CAN protect provided you are in it while they are trying to steal it- carjacking. I am not sure why buy my guess is that anything can happen to you at that point- especially if they are armed and decide that you are going for a ride with them.

Bad guy climbs into your window or tries to open your door and he has something in his hand, shoot him. You don't know what it is and you have every reason to be in fear of your life at that point.

 

[7orelevn]

The original thread was can you protect your wheels by a person. We are now talking carjacking a totally different issue my friend.

 

[GooseUhRoose]

would a good pistol whipping be within reason? or still be assault with a deadly weapon?

 

[HandK]

Yes you are going to jail, drawing your gun in a non deadly force case is a crime in and of itself! shooting him anyplace is use of deadly force, you can not use deadly force to protect property!

 

[D.Kupp]

The original thread was can you protect your wheels by a person. We are now talking carjacking a totally different issue my friend.

Ok fine. I guess it wasn't you that said you can't shoot someone over property?

I have every right to elaborate all I want. You have every right to just move right along and stick with whatever small portion of this thread that you'd like to.

 

[D.Kupp]

HandK- look up "forcible felony"

 

[Fargo]

Yes you are going to jail, drawing your gun in a non deadly force case is a crime in and of itself!

What crime?

 

[finity]

No, I believe you can "try to stop the theft within reason" and if tackling him is the way you chose to, you are fine.

At that point when three men decide to beat you, you can use deadly force in response to serious bodily injury.

They can't claim self defense of any sort while in the act of committing a felony. I'm assuming your wheels are worth enough (retail) to justify a felony?

Agreed to all above points

Finity- you CANNOT use reasonable force when the man is stealing your wheels if he is not using unlawful force on you. Sorry.

Sorry, that's not the way the law reads:

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).

If someone is stealing your stuff you can use reasonable force to try to stop them.

Yes you are going to jail, drawing your gun in a non deadly force case is a crime in and of itself! shooting him anyplace is use of deadly force, you can not use deadly force to protect property!

Looking at the law above you're able to use reasonable force to stop someone from stealing your stuff. Looking at the law below...:

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.

...pointing a gun is not illegal IF use of reasonable force is justified under the previously posted IC 35-41-3-2 above. You can't point it if you can't draw it so, no, it's not illegal to draw in the situation posed (i.e. stealing wheels).

If they don't stop & just keep walking away after you draw then there's nothing you can do. Unless they threaten you with SBI. At that point deadly force is justified, as long as you can show it was a reasonable response to the threat.

 

[D.Kupp]

Thank you Finity. I stand corrected. I was still on "deadly" I guess. Or I hope cuz that's the only excuse that makes sense

I do however NOT believe that drawing a firearm is "reasonable" and if the jury does not feel this is reasonable then you are in trouble. Reasonable would be to tackle or kick or punch IMHO. If the bad guy brings out a knife while you are doing this well things change and you know it's never smart to bring a knife to a gunfight.