"Can I Carry in a Bar?" -- A RELATED QUESTION . . .

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  • rhino

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Okay . . . so we frequently see topics arise wherein someone asks if it's legal to carry in a bar. Usually someone has told them or they "seem to recall" that it's illegal, but they want clarification. In short order, they are instructed that there is no law barring otherwise lawful carry of a handgun in a bar.

    Here's the related issue: in many of these topics, at least one person (typcially the person who thinks it's illegal to carry in a bar, but could be someone(s) else) will state that they leave their gun in at home or in the car when they intend to "go drinking."

    This always raises red flags in my head.

    First of all, I am concerned that some of these same people intend to drive their car to and from the location of drinking. Not always the case, but at least sometimes it is. My question is, why are they concerned about having some puny handgun on them when their ability to make decisions and act may be impaired, yet they do not show the same level of concern over operating a far more deadly weapon (i.e. their vehicle)?

    On a more fundamental issue, why would someone purposely compromise their ability to make decisions and act, especially in public, by drinking or consuming other intoxicants? If you are concerned enough about your personal safety the rest of the week to acquire a firearm, learn how to use it, and then carry it to help protect yourself, why do something to limit your ability to protect yourself regardless of whether you are carrying or not? You need to be able to maintain awareness, think clearly, and react purposefully when danger is present regardless of your state of being armed.

    So what's the deal?
     

    Cwood

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    May 30, 2008
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    Your just jealous cuz no one will let you drink!!!!!! :lmfao:



    In all seriousness, I don't drink so I am waiting to hear the answers.
     

    haldir

    Shooter
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    Jun 10, 2008
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    Goshen
    I guess I am in the other corner. If I am going to the bar to enjoy some adult beverages I will be carrying 100%. I have seen way too many mean drunks in my life that have pulled weapons for no reason.
     

    rhino

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    Your just jealous cuz no one will let you drink!!!!!! :lmfao:


    In all seriousness, I don't drink so I am waiting to hear the answers.

    It's true! I'm permanently 86'd from . . . everywhere!

    I don't drink either (since May 1983), but this is an issue that keeps getting raised, but usually not addressed. I just don't get someone making plans where they expect to not be able to handle their firearm judiciously and effectively deciding not to carry, but not seeing the bigger issue of making themself a significantly easier victim due to impairment. It seems to contradict the purpose of carrying (at other times) for personal defense.

    I suppose some might say they have a "designated carryer," like a designated driver. To that, my reaction would be that I do not entrust my personal safety to others (unless I have no choice), whether it's a buddy, someone with a badge, or a whomever.

    Our brains are the essential link any kind of defensive plan. Making that link weaker on purpose doesn't make sense to me.
     

    rhino

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    I guess I am in the other corner. If I am going to the bar to enjoy some adult beverages I will be carrying 100%. I have seen way too many mean drunks in my life that have pulled weapons for no reason.

    Indeed. You also probably don't go with the intent of becoming intoxicated to the point where you can't make good decisions, either.
     

    haldir

    Shooter
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    Jun 10, 2008
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    Goshen
    Indeed. You also probably don't go with the intent of becoming intoxicated to the point where you can't make good decisions, either.

    No I don't. I saw on a chart one time that I could drink about 5 (IIRC) before I hit the legal limit so I usually have 3.
     

    360

    Shooter
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    Feb 7, 2009
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    This could segway into ANOTHER valid question.

    What would happen if you shot someone in justifiable self defense, and you were legally intoxicated, or had ANY BAC at all?

    I would assume the lawyers would tear you apart.
     

    groovatron

    Master
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    7   0   0
    Oct 9, 2009
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    calumet township
    Okay . . . so we frequently see topics arise wherein someone asks if it's legal to carry in a bar. Usually someone has told them or they "seem to recall" that it's illegal, but they want clarification. In short order, they are instructed that there is no law barring otherwise lawful carry of a handgun in a bar.

    Here's the related issue: in many of these topics, at least one person (typcially the person who thinks it's illegal to carry in a bar, but could be someone(s) else) will state that they leave their gun in at home or in the car when they intend to "go drinking."

    This always raises red flags in my head.

    First of all, I am concerned that some of these same people intend to drive their car to and from the location of drinking. Not always the case, but at least sometimes it is. My question is, why are they concerned about having some puny handgun on them when their ability to make decisions and act may be impaired, yet they do not show the same level of concern over operating a far more deadly weapon (i.e. their vehicle)?

    I agree, a car is a far deadlier weapon. I do not drive when I am over the legal limit....I also don't carry when I am over the legal limit. Being that the car is a far deadlier weapon, this makes sense to me.

    On a more fundamental issue, why would someone purposely compromise their ability to make decisions and act, especially in public, by drinking or consuming other intoxicants? If you are concerned enough about your personal safety the rest of the week to acquire a firearm, learn how to use it, and then carry it to help protect yourself, why do something to limit your ability to protect yourself regardless of whether you are carrying or not? You need to be able to maintain awareness, think clearly, and react purposefully when danger is present regardless of your state of being armed.

    So....you are saying that people should not drink...period? Do you believe in zero tolerance BAL when operating a motor vehicle? I feel that the amount of alcohol that I allow myself in a carrying situation (2 beers) is reasonable. I would be willing to bet you a large amount of money that if you tested my "skills" before and after 2 beers, you would not find a noticable difference.

    So what's the deal?

    I am assuming that this thread was created in relation to the thread I just posted about carrying in a bar. You bring up some good points. However, I think that there is a responsible way to do most things. I have a system that I believe in and follow. I do not break the law, and I do not feel like judgement or ability is impaired. From the sounds of the OP, it seems like you are personally anti-drinking. That's fine. To each his/her own. :patriot:
     

    Wesley929

    Sharpshooter
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    Jan 15, 2009
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    NW INDY
    I always carry when I go out. Even if I'm going out to the bar I'll be carrying. It is a last resort whether I'm sober or intoxicated. Thats how I justify it to myself. I always try to avoid conflict while drinking and usually leave the bar rather than engage in a confrontation. I don't think the point where I become fearful for my life changes with my BAC.
     

    esrice

    Certified Regular Guy
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    20   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
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    Indy
    I am assuming that this thread was created in relation to the thread I just posted about carrying in a bar.

    I'm pretty sure it was actually created after another thread that came up yesterday.

    I also don't see rhino as directly attacking drinking, but more the physical impairment that it can/does lead to.

    I could be wrong though. . . .
     

    gotink42

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2008
    16
    1
    Valparaiso IN
    Just yesterday myslef & a friend went out for lunch I was CC and he was OC I dont drink he does. His shirt was covering half of his holster. Then he asked for a beer. I personly think beer and guns are not a good mix specially if you OC. Its just another thing the hatters will ***** about. But if your going to a bar and not drinking then I would carry.
     

    groovatron

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    Oct 9, 2009
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    calumet township
    I'm pretty sure it was actually created after another thread that came up yesterday.

    I also don't see rhino as directly attacking drinking, but more the physical impairment that it can/does lead to.

    I could be wrong though. . . .

    Gottcha......I didn't realize that:) Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has there own way of handling things. rhino brings up some good points of discussion and I always value his opinions:rockwoot:
     

    Ness2k

    Marksman
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    0   0   0
    Dec 26, 2008
    265
    16
    China ^_^
    I'm the DD. I'm the one nursing a Captain and co(la), and later just some Diet Coke, while my friends are having a good time.

    It's absolutely irresponsible to not have a DD, and my friends are completely understanding of the need to have one. My friends I socially drink with usually carry, so they enjoy having someone there that could protect them, too. I OC (and CC my BUG) everywhere we go without a problem. It's good to say where I am I've never had an issue OC'ing in a bar.

    I'm highly interested in having a supervised "drink and shoot" day out back sometime, to see how my ability to recognize a "bad" target, draw, aim, and fire slows as I've been drinking. Just for my own research, ya know.
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 9, 2008
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    Lafayette, Indiana
    Depend on the circumstances. Or, in the alternative, a question of intent.

    If you are 23 and going out to "get hammered" with the boys and maybe meet some girls, yeah, leave the pistol at home.

    If you are 40 and going out to Broad Ripple to go to dinner with your lady friend and have a glass of wine or a beer, and be hassled by the po-po when you go for coffee, no problem, take your guns along.

    I agree, rhino, just because it is legal does not make it a good idea.

    As we mature, we get far too busy to get in trouble.:D
     

    rhino

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    I'm pretty sure it was actually created after another thread that came up yesterday.

    I also don't see rhino as directly attacking drinking, but more the physical impairment that it can/does lead to.

    I could be wrong though. . . .

    You are absolutely correct, sir. The topic arose from the most recent incarnation, but we've seen it dozens of times here (if not more) and hundreds of times if you include the Indiana areas of ar15.com and glocktalk.

    And no, I don't give a crap if someone drinks or not, as long as they don't put my life at risk when they do so (i.e. driving drunk). This is absolutely about the impairment issue as well as the disconnect between being vigilant about defense sometimes, but then willing to undo all of that by purposely getting impaired (at least to the point where they are not comfortable carrying a gun) at other times. It makes no sense to me.
     
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