Calling all vets...

[hornadylnl]

The respect I'm talking about isn't military heroism. I'm talking about basic respect you would pay to any stranger you meet. Don't treat me like a liar, cheat, thief, etc until I have proven to be any of them.

I had an e5 gunner on my Bradley. He'd ask if I checked this or that on the pmcs. I'd tell him yes and he'd always ask are you sure. I wanted to say so bad "no, I didn't, you caught me". What am I, f'ing 3 years old? That worked on my daughter when she was 3.

This same e5 tried passing the blame on me when he negligently sent a 25 mm round down range and we got pulled off of the range. That pos doesn't deserve to lead the food line at a fast food joint yet he was in charge of my life. I dealt with much bigger loser nco's in the guard.

 

[indianajoe]

A quick comment on this thread (currently on the road with a very small keyboard)... I appreciate hearing these perspectives from you all. I'm glad to have found this community.

 

[USMC_0311]

Would you tolerate a civilian employer talking down to you and treating like dirt simply because they can?

If it was my employer the person who signs my check damn straight I would tolerate it.

You get treated like an adult when you graduate from boot camp. After that, you should get treated like your rank dictates..... unless you feel pompus enough to demand anything from one who outranks you...then you become fair game.

From my experience in a front line unit discipline is paramount. Respect is earned after your first 30 mile hump.

Front line infantry units in the Marine Corps will send you packing if you cause too much of a problem. Enlisted or commissioned no matter. I had a new platoon leader physically smack a private in my fire team for losing his rifle in a river while trying to cross it. He got smacked when he refused to go back in the river to retrieve the rifle. I told the platoon leader that he had to smack me since he smacked one of my team. I pushed the issue and the platoon leader was relieved of his command that very day. Respect earned will go a lot further then respect demanded. On one med tour I witnessed a guy leave a cleaning rod in the barrel on a training range (sent home OTH), another one got drunk on liberty fell of a bridge (sent home medical but after they stripped him of his rank), another Marine pull a bayonet on another Marine (me) (sent home OTH and 2 missing teeth (kevlar helmet)) My point is they did/do kick bad ones out.

 

[jeremy]

It is not uncommon in the Army to chapter out the bad apples either...

 

[Cwood]

It is not uncommon in the Army to chapter out the bad apples either...

or wall to wall counsel......

 

[jeremy]

Cwood, sadly I need to report to you that wall - wall counseling in the Army is not that common anymore...

Sigh... I guess that makes me one of the crusty ol' Sgt's now. Just for remembering that with a fondness.

 

[hornadylnl]

It is not uncommon in the Army to chapter out the bad apples either...

I saw it take months if not a year to chapter out druggies and other trouble makers. The chain of command thought they were punishing the soldier by dragging out the chapter when all they were doing was draining the morale of the entire unit by us having to interact with the douche bags.

There was another guy in my battalion that was chaptered in less than a week for being dressed in drag and telling his CO that he wanted a sex change. There is no reason it takes months to get rid of a bad soldier other than "punishment".

 

[hornadylnl]

Cwood, sadly I need to report to you that wall - wall counseling in the Army is not that common anymore...

Sigh... I guess that makes me one of the crusty ol' Sgt's now. Just for remembering that with a fondness.

If you have to beat a soldier to gain compliance, maybe he shouldn't be in the military.

 

[Cwood]

Cwood, sadly I need to report to you that wall - wall counseling in the Army is not that common anymore...

Sigh... I guess that makes me one of the crusty ol' Sgt's now. Just for remembering that with a fondness.

Granted that it did not happen often, being in a line company, it did happen.

 

[jeremy]

It usually takes about at least 30 days to run a chapter though the gambit of offices. Jag has to review, depend on what chapter it and the Soldier may have to go though med review.

But, you are right I have seen units that drag the process out. I really never understood why you would want to do that. Get the little turd out of the unit.

 

[r3126]

It usually takes about at least 30 days to run a chapter though the gambit of offices.

Unfortunately, in my experience, albeit quite a while ago, that would be the minimal time with OPTIMUM circumstances. As a unit commander, I could never really figure out why it took so long until, one day, I stopped and counted the number of inbaskets and outbaskets a package had to pass through going up the chain and back down. Then, factor in the fact that this one package was only one of perhaps a whole s#@tload to be worked along with the fact that each inbasket/outbasket had his usual daily workload to accomplish.

Not really an excuse because I always felt that SOMEONE was dragging their feet. I KNEW that my package was the most important thing that anybody in the chain had to work.

You know, it sure is easy to tell which of us look back on our military experience warmly - and vice versa.

 

[hornadylnl]

You know, it sure is easy to tell which of us look back on our military experience warmly - and vice versa.

Ok, I know you are calling me out here and no, I never received any wall to wall counseling. I just think our soldiers out to be afforded the same right of not being beaten as the low life dregs of our society by police, prison guards, etc. We've got Navy Seals up for court martial because they fattened a terrorists lip. Now why should your sergeant have license to lock you up at attention and hit you? Sounds pretty cowardly to me. If you are going to hit your soldier, take your rank off and be prepared to take one back.

I had some good times in the military along with some bad ones. Every one of the bad ones were at the hands of douche bags. There is nothing wrong with the institution of the military. It's the people who make it up. After 200 years, we still have leaders who wish they could still beat their soldiers.

If I had it to do over again, I still would have went in. I just would have done things much differently.

 

[r3126]

Now why should your sergeant have license to lock you up at attention and hit you?

Don't take any of this personally - I am only setting forth my thoughts just like you are putting forth yours.

Ref your quote: There are at least three reasons that I can think of off the top of my head that counters the "license" that you refer to. Articles 92, 93 and 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You, if you knew of a case where one of these articles were violated were guilty of a violation of another article, the name and number of which slips my mind. Oh yes, there are two, Articles 78 and 134.

 

[jeremy]

Now why should your sergeant have license to lock you up at attention and hit you? Sounds pretty cowardly to me. If you are going to hit your soldier, take your rank off and be prepared to take one back.

I had some good times in the military along with some bad ones. Every one of the bad ones were at the hands of douche bags. There is nothing wrong with the institution of the military. It's the people who make it up. After 200 years, we still have leaders who wish they could still beat their soldiers.

If I had it to do over again, I still would have went in. I just would have done things much differently.

Everytime I have ever got into a row with a soldier rank was not an issue. However, if you think we are in a cage or a ring and there are rules then you are going to be sadly disappointed. I have the same rule that my father had as I was growing up. If you want to make a fist then be prepared to have the crap beat out of yourself also. Rarely have I ever used this method with a soldier.

I will say it again Respect is an Earned Privilage and something that is not demanded from me. If you think that, I have ways to show you the ignorance of your ways. I do not demand the Respect of my subordinates. I also understand that not everyone understands which end of the stick is sharp also.

 

[Jay]

If you have to beat a soldier to gain compliance, maybe he shouldn't be in the military.

...or....perhaps "if you have to beat a subordinate to gain compliance, then YOU shouldn't be in a position of leadership.

Ya think ? Not rocket science, deal with it.

 

[hornadylnl]

...or....perhaps "if you have to beat a subordinate to gain compliance, then YOU shouldn't be in a position of leadership.

Ya think ? Not rocket science, deal with it.

That's a better way of putting it.

I was on my overnight pass at the end of basic. I was supposed to meet at a place with some of the other joes to get a room for the night. While standing at a pay phone outside of Wendy's, one of my drills pulled up behind me and I thought I was screwed. He ended up giving me a ride to a hotel. He told me that he could get more work out of 5 joes than the other drills could get out of 20. When this guy said jump, we gladly said how high?

Out of the 4 drills we had, this one was by far the most respected. He didn't put the hurt on us for him, it was for us. He was a great leader and I wish I had served under more like him.