Blackhawk Holsters?

[PKendall317]

Does anyone have an opinion on blackhawk holsters? I was browsing through Wally World today getting my car fixed and I saw it. On the box it said it could be either IWB or OWB and ambidextrious. Don't know what model it was though. Any comments or suggestions?

 

[indyjoe]

This seems to be one of the first holsters that a gun owner gets. They are fine for range work. I haven't tried Blackhawk as IWB, but find they stick out too far in OWB and never use it off the range.

I'm a big fan of the MTAC/CTAC holster and once I bought one of those, the Blackhawk has gotten little use.

 

[Denny347]

Serpa's? Our department put out a safety bulletin strongly suggesting to discontinue use for safety reasons. Did not go into specifics but Google it and you see the issues.

 

[Hoosierdood]

The Blackhawk holsters at Walmart are basically like the Uncle Mike's holsters. They are cheap and bulky. In my opinion, they make you look kind of goofy while carrying. I know that holsters can be expensive, but you really should take your empty gun to your local gun store and try a bunch on for size. Invest in a good quality holster and you will be amazed at how it feels.

 

[88GT]

Serpa's? Our department put out a safety bulletin strongly suggesting to discontinue use for safety reasons. Did not go into specifics but Google it and you see the issues.

Except that I don't. Nothing in the "stories about stories about problems" that point the finger at the holster and not the user.

 

[NIFT]

The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center(s), among others, has banned the Blackhawk SERPA holster as a dangerous design. For handgun classes where we shoot from holster, I, too, prohibit SERPA holsters.

Reason: the design of the holster's release button facilitates the trigger finger slapping the trigger as the gun as it clears the holster. Typically, here is what happens: the shooter grabs the gun and tries to yank it out of the holster while pressing the release button with the trigger finger. Since the gun was being pulled before the release button was depressed, the holster does not release the gun, and the tension from trying to pull the gun makes it hard to depress the release button. The shooter, then, pushes really hard on the release button with the trigger finger until the gun releases.

The gun is already under a lot of upward tension when it releases, and the trigger finger is still pushing hard inward when the gun finally pops out of the holster. Then, the trigger finger slaps the trigger while the gun has not yet fully cleared the holster.

KaBoom!

At best, the result is a nasty red stripe down the leg, powder burns, and both a ruined holster and ruined pair of pants. At worst, the femoral artery is severed, and the shooter bleeds out and dies before medical help arrives.

Here is Derek "Tex" Grebner doing exactly what is described above. He ended up with an ugly gunshot wound, but it was not fatal.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs[/ame]

Watch the slow-mo portion of the video in full frame, and you will see him pulling the pistol and his belt up because the gun was not releasing. He then, finally, applies enough pressure on the release button, and his finger slaps the trigger as the gun is coming out of the holster. Grebner has a very apropos description of the result.

I recommend against the Blackhawk SERPA holster in the strongest terms. A much better choice is one of the Safariland ALS (Automatic Locking System) holsters that come in a numbrer of security levels. They are, also, lined with a suede type of material that substantially reduces holster wear on the gun.

 

[buckstopshere]

Might wanna check out hooch holsters. GPD177 right here on INGO.

 

[lovemachine]

Dont carry a $500+ quality gun in a cheap crappy $20 holster.

 

[Denny347]

Except that I don't. Nothing in the "stories about stories about problems" that point the finger at the holster and not the user.

The finger placement for releasing the pistol puts it right in line with the trigger so if you draw under stress, your clinched hand has a tendency to drop the finger right onto the trigger. Carrying it around town and while shooting paper is low stress and easy to manage. Throw in stressors and it's a bad combination. Plus injection molding is so cheap. I rank it up there with Fobus (shutter) and the sidearmor injection molded line. Get a good leather or kydex holster.

 

[Hoosierdood]

The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center(s), among others, has banned the Blackhawk SERPA holster as a dangerous design. For handgun classes where we shoot from holster, I, too, prohibit SERPA holsters.

Reason: the design of the holster's release button facilitates the trigger finger slapping the trigger as the gun as it clears the holster. Typically, here is what happens: the shooter grabs the gun and tries to yank it out of the holster while pressing the release button with the trigger finger. Since the gun was being pulled before the release button was depressed, the holster does not release the gun, and the tension from trying to pull the gun makes it hard to depress the release button. The shooter, then, pushes really hard on the release button with the trigger finger until the gun releases.

The gun is already under a lot of upward tension when it releases, and the trigger finger is still pushing hard inward when the gun finally pops out of the holster. Then, the trigger finger slaps the trigger while the gun has not yet fully cleared the holster.

KaBoom!

At best, the result is a nasty red stripe down the leg, powder burns, and both a ruined holster and ruined pair of pants. At worst, the femoral artery is severed, and the shooter bleeds out and dies before medical help arrives.

Here is Derek "Tex" Grebner doing exactly what is described above. He ended up with an ugly gunshot wound, but it was not fatal.

Watch the slow-mo portion of the video in full frame, and you will see him pulling the pistol and his belt up because the gun was not releasing. He then, finally, applies enough pressure on the release button, and his finger slaps the trigger as the gun is coming out of the holster. Grebner has a very apropos description of the result.

I recommend against the Blackhawk SERPA holster in the strongest terms. A much better choice is one of the Safariland ALS (Automatic Locking System) holsters that come in a numbrer of security levels. They are, also, lined with a suede type of material that substantially reduces holster wear on the gun.

Actually, most of the time it is operator error, rather than the fault of the holster. In the video referenced above, Tex shot himself because he was not taking care to use the holster properly. He had been practicing all day with a holster that had a thumb release. When he switched to the SERPA, his muscle memory caused his thumb to disengage the safety on his 1911 while it was still in the holster. It also caused him to forget about the release button. This all lead to his ND and the hole in his leg.

We need to stop blaming the holster, and start blaming the user. For the record, I have taken training classes, and have practiced several hundred draw and fire drills with a SERPA holster, and have had zero problems.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE[/ame]

 

[Bapak2ja]

I used a Blackhawk with my G26. I heard the same arguments against it as I heard about using a semiautomatic without an external safety. Basically, "You'll shoot your eye out" kind of arguments.

Can you shoot yourself in the foot/leg without an external safety? Yes, if you do not perform properly. Can you shoot yourself with a Blackhawk? Yes, if you do not perform properly.

Is it safe to use a Glock without an external safety? Yes, millions do. You just have to train properly and use the weapon properly. Is it safe to use a Blackhawk SERPA? Yes, millions do. You just have to train properly and use the weapon properly.

Remember, the US Marine Corps recently adopted the holster for its personnel who carry 9mm semiautos.

Corps’ new pistol holster called dangerous - Marine Corps News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Marine Corps Times

The debate goes on. If I was training a bunch of noobs, as Mr. Aldridge often does, I probably would ban the holster, too. Why take the risk of a noob with little or no training shooting himself?

But if the USMC and "U.S. special operators, and law enforcement personnel" think the holster is good for the elite fighting men of our nation, I think it is a good choice for some situations.

 

[Denny347]

Do some real force on force training. If you draw 100% safely...keep it. If just ONCE you snap your finger onto the trigger while drawing...ditch it.

 

[NIFT]

We need to stop blaming the holster, and start blaming the user. For the record, I have taken training classes, and have practiced several hundred draw and fire drills with a SERPA holster, and have had zero problems.

Here is the contact information for FLETC should you wish to advise them:

FLETC
FAD, Building 221
1131 Chapel Crossing Road
Glynco, GA 31524
Phone: (912) 267-2278
Email: Fletc-FADPOC@dhs.gov

It is not the hundreds (or thousands) of times SERPA holsters have been used without catastrophic NDs; rather, it is the pattern of mishaps similar to that experienced by Grebner that has led FLETC and others to prohibit the SERPA holster.

Granted, and I agree, it is operator error, but the SERPA holster design facilitates such errors. It is good you have not experienced such an ND, and I hope you never do!

 

[Mackey]

I'm guessing that this finger slap thing may be specific to the firearm. When I use my Serpa (properly, that is, not with the tip of my finger) it ends up in the "safe" position on the side of the gun above the trigger guard (right where people want to see you have it in pictures vs in the trigger guard ... so they don't flame you).
That holster retains that gun perfectly. Since I'm not planning to do any Wyatt Erp drawing, I have no worries at all..... I'm not scared.

And as for those who feel you have to spend half as much on your holster as your gun ....
Well, it's your money.
I'll be using my Serpa.

 

[williamnewman1]

im one of those as well that i actually like the serpa and lock. i am quite comfortable with it and never slap the trigger. i will admit that i can see how someone could "slap the trigger". i do also believe that with good discipline and "dry runs" it is all on the user and not the holster.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I'm guessing that this finger slap thing may be specific to the firearm. When I use my Serpa (properly, that is, not with the tip of my finger) it ends up in the "safe" position on the side of the gun above the trigger guard (right where people want to see you have it in pictures vs in the trigger guard ... so they don't flame you).
That holster retains that gun perfectly. Since I'm not planning to do any Wyatt Erp drawing, I have no worries at all..... I'm not scared.

And as for those who feel you have to spend half as much on your holster as your gun ....
Well, it's your money.
I'll be using my Serpa.

My experience is similar to yours. When I used the SERPA properly, my finger naturally came to the proper position. I used it for two full-day training programs. I respect Mr. Aldridge as one of the best trainers in Indiana. I have not trained with him, but men I highly respect have done so and endorse his knowledge, skill and wisdom.

Yet, the USMC has a strong reputation, too. They are experienced in real combat. They have chosen the Blackhawk SERPA. Their decision suggests the holster has merit.

 

[LPMan59]

My experience is similar to yours. When I used the SERPA properly, my finger naturally came to the proper position. I used it for two full-day training programs. I respect Mr. Aldridge as one of the best trainers in Indiana. I have not trained with him, but men I highly respect have done so and endorse his knowledge, skill and wisdom.

Yet, the USMC has a strong reputation, too. They are experienced in real combat. They have chosen the Blackhawk SERPA. Their decision suggests the holster has merit.

just like the 1911 trials that were just conducted?

 

[Mackey]

just like the 1911 trials that were just conducted?

Ok, the marines know nothing.
Only nameless forum members are experts and should be listened to and honored.

Better?

 

[Bapak2ja]

just like the 1911 trials that were just conducted?

You are right, of course; the USMC knows nothing about combat, weapons, or self-defense. We can't trust their judgement, experience, or knowledge.

Do I really need purple here?

 

[SSGSAD]

You are right, of course; the USMC knows nothing about combat, weapons, or self-defense. We can't trust their judgement, experience, or knowledge.

Do I really need purple here?

And THEY TRAIN hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of MARINES, and for the past who knows how many years, have been sending said trained troops, to WAR, in SEVERAL different countries ..... SEMPER FI !!!!! AND just as an add-on, why at Camp Perry, are the MARINE gunsmiths, the MOST POPULAR ?????