bird shot is bird brained for HD

[confused89]

Got #4 Turkey Loads in mine, don't want to shoot my truck which is on the other end of the house. Pretty sure insurance will denie that claim when I tell them that the damage to the truck is due to me shooting it. Besides there are other guns within reach that I have access to.

 

[cosermann]

If y'all want to wallow in this debate, why stop at INGO?

Bird Shot Penetration Myths?

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

 

[snowman46919]

Relic said it best in his 1st sentence, "I dont load my HD shotgun with light load bird shot but I know damn well it'll get the job done.."

I totally agree there is nothing pleasurable about any 12 gauge round. My advice for anyone unsure would to be try all variations of ammo in the situation that would most likely resemble your HD scenario. For me, 00 buck has impressive results.

In conclusion, I will always shoot 00 buck for HD if I can, but I will rest assured that a 12 gauge will suffice regardless of what load I am shooting.

That is my point, a few people here were so dismissive of bird shot. Would it be my choice, no and I picked up some buck shot this weekend but that wasn't my concern. My concern was putting doubt in someone that they might as well roll over and take it because birdshot isn't going to do anything and quite frankly the way my mossberg patterns with 6 shot and the choke thats in it I wouldn't want anything I hold near and dear to be in front of it within self defense range when it goes bang.

 

[gunman41mag]

Lets see If I understand this, A beanbag shot out of a gun, will put a man down, B U T #4 will only tickle him ??? Is that what some of you expect me to believe !!!

 

[snowman46919]

Lets see If I understand this, A beanbag shot out of a gun, will put a man down, B U T #4 will only tickle him ??? Is that what some of you expect me to believe !!!

Actually blunt force trauma can induce more pain than several small pellets due to the way the energy is transferred but at defensive ranges I am still on the same page as you are.

 

[lon]

If y'all want to wallow in this debate, why stop at INGO?

Bird Shot Penetration Myths?

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

You gotta love The Box...where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

I liked conclusion #4

4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

 

[Bapak2ja]

OK, so 00 buckshot is best for HD shotgun use. Now, why use a shotgun in the narrow confines of a house, with halls and stairways? Would not barrel length be problematic? Seems a handgun would be more useful due to greater maneuverability. But I guess that should be on another thread.

 

[shibumiseeker]

OK, so 00 buckshot is best for HD shotgun use. Now, why use a shotgun in the narrow confines of a house, with halls and stairways? Would not barrel length be problematic? Seems a handgun would be more useful due to greater maneuverability. But I guess that should be on another thread.

No matter what someone chooses for home defense, there will be a cadre of folks who criticize their choice. That's the nature of the beast.

What I would like to know is how many people who criticize the choice actually practice practical home defense and have organized their home in such a fashion to maximize defensibility. This makes more difference than the choice of ammo or gun in most cases.

 

[snowman46919]

OK, so 00 buckshot is best for HD shotgun use. Now, why use a shotgun in the narrow confines of a house, with halls and stairways? Would not barrel length be problematic? Seems a handgun would be more useful due to greater maneuverability. But I guess that should be on another thread.

I am not going to try and clear a house by myself either, wife calls 911 I get the kids behind me in the master bedroom that only has one path to it and it is down a narrow hallway. With all that adrenaline pumping I like the idea of a man width hallway and a shotgun YMMV

 

[calcot7]

Yeah, and if she's standing next to you that narrows your odds of being the bad guys target. Hope she will be wearing armor.

 

[snowman46919]

Yeah, and if she's standing next to you that narrows your odds of being the bad guys target. Hope she will be wearing armor.

Why would she be standing beside me? That is almost as idiotic as your statement.

 

[ATM]

"birdshot vs buckshot"...
"OC vs CC"...
You will never find a ultimate and only right answer.

OC the shotgun with 00 Buck.

That is the ultimate and only right answer.

[/thread]

 

[snowman46919]

OC the shotgun with 00 Rock Salt

That is the ultimate and only right answer.

[/thread]

FTFY I kid I kid.

 

[451_Detonics]

bird shot doesnt have enough distance to fully spread..it will damn near put a hole like a slug under 10 yards and it has plenty of ass behind it to knock anything your shooting at off its feet.

So I assume the shooter will be knocked of their feet as well...maybe with a 4 gauge but that's not happening with a 12. Can't change the laws of physics.

Bird shot makes a nasty but very shallow wound, even at close range. the pellets simply do not have enough mass to penetrate deep enough. Add a leather jacket to the BG and the penetration is even less. Shot does not act "like a solid mass" even at close range, each individual pellet still weighs the same at any distance and they do not gain power or weight from surrounding pellets.

LEO's have been sued many, many times for projectiles that have gone astray in gun fights, if birdshot was really effective they would use it to reduce these lawsuits. I don't know a single established instructor that recommends birdshot for self defense. They all know it won't penetrate deep enough to be reliable.

Does it ever work? Yes...occasionally it will do the job but my family deserves better than a "maybe it will work" round defending them. The argument of at close range it will blow a bad guy away but won't go through dry wall is silly. If it has enough power to reach the vitals on a bg it is going through a couple layers of drywall and still have the energy to do deadly damage on the other side. No one has invented a round that will penetrate the body but stop in drywall...just doesn't work that way.

 

[bobzilla]

I love arguments on the interwebs. They are always so "insightful". :lol: Shot is only part of the equation. Barrel length, choke, etc are all factors as well. My HD shotty was a 28" full choke M500. It's now 19" and #6 birdshot at 15 feet punches a 3" hole with about 5-10 "stragglers" outside that pattern. Dad's M500 with the standard 18.5" bbl takes that same load and makes a 5" pattern with more "stragglers".

 

[Iroquois]

Didn't Dick Cheney almost kill a friend at 40+ yrds with bird shot??? Almost every
comment in this thread is based on a one-size-fits-all idea. Here's my own simple set
of rules based on reading and hopefully a bit of common sense.
.1 If some one breaks into your house,arm yourself and take a defensive position,
behind something solid if possible. .2 Use the biggest gun you can safely operate in your present situation.[I wouldn't
want the guy in the trailer next door firing off a .308] I used to live in town and had
kids in the house so bird-shot made sense at the time. Now I use buckshot. No close
neighbors-No kids
.3 If you have go stumping around in a dark house don't take a gun with a barrel longer
than the handle 'specially if you're half asleep. You don't know who's in there and you are no match for a crack head in a wrestling match over a gun. If you have to let go of the gun with one hand to open a door you've lost most of your advantage gripping it.
It's really hard to wrestle a snub-nose away from someone without getting your hand
shredded.
.4 Other than a family member, there's nothing in your house worth taking a big risk to protect ... make a plan to ensure your survival and share it with the people you live
with. You don't want junior stepping between you and the perp in a shootout.
Just my opinion , never had to test it, hope I don't have too.

 

[Bapak2ja]

After reading this thread, studying it really, from beginning to end I have come to the following conclusions:

1. For HD purposes, 00 buckshot is a better option than birdshot in a standard single family dwelling.

2. If one is in a SHTF situation and birdshot is all that is available, use it well. Aim carefully for COM. Double tap is recommended.

3. Since one now has opportunity to prepare for SHTF situations, one should acquire at least one box of 00 buckshot to store beside the HD shotgun of one's choice so that it is available when needed.

4. Shotgun should be stored in "last stand" location as a final fall-back position. It should be manned by the back up gunner (wife, oldest child, etc.) and should be accompanied by a cell phone to call 911 for police support.

5. In the event of SHTF situation, back up gunners should immediately man the last stand position while husband/dad reconnoiters to ascertain if there really is a threat to life and security.

6. When real threat is present, alert is given to the back ups, call is made and the homeowner takes all necessary defensive precautions to protect family.

7. When opportunity arises, waste the BG.

Sounds reasonable to me. Now that we have had this discussion, there is no excuse for being caught with only birdshot.

 

[bigedp51]

Years ago in a gun magazine there was an article about home defense loads and NOT shooting through your house and killing your neighbors.

In a .38 or .357 revolver you load three pieces of .30 caliber buck shot in the Speer plastic shot capsules at approximately 800 fps.

(forgive me but this is true)

Whole room temp chickens were wrapped in a heavy Woolrich coat, behind the chicken was a sheet of drywall and four inches away was some aluminum siding. "NO" repeat "NO" buck shot penetrated the aluminum siding during the testing.

The best part of the test was if you pulled the trigger six times on your revolver the target would have 18 holes in it.

This test was also repeated by cutting up brass brazing rods and placing them in the plastic shot capsules making a deadly flechette round.

Using "Bird Shot" to shooting someone at a distance was called "Dusting their A$$" and it sent a non-lethal message to trespassers and thieves.

 

[snowman46919]

Years ago in a gun magazine there was an article about home defense loads and NOT shooting through your house and killing your neighbors.

In a .38 or .357 revolver you load three pieces of .30 caliber buck shot in the Speer plastic shot capsules at approximately 800 fps.

(forgive me but this is true)

Whole room temp chickens were wrapped in a heavy Woolrich coat, behind the chicken was a sheet of drywall and four inches away was some aluminum siding. "NO" repeat "NO" buck shot penetrated the aluminum siding during the testing.

The best part of the test was if you pulled the trigger six times on your revolver the target would have 18 holes in it.

This test was also repeated by cutting up brass brazing rods and placing them in the plastic shot capsules making a deadly flechette round.

Using "Bird Shot" to shooting someone at a distance was called "Dusting their A$$" and it sent a non-lethal message to trespassers and thieves.

Last time I checked they didn't make a 357 or 38 revolver with an 18 inch or longer barrel and with no provision of load ballistics we really have nothing to go off of. To the second piece there we are not discussing shooting at distance we are talking within the confines of a house.

 

[mospeada]

For those that advocate birdshot due to penetration issues and family members. At what point would you fire that shotgun, knowing that your daughter/son/husband/wife are asleep on the other side of the wall behind the BG? I'm curious as I have no such problem. Do you think you're for sure gonna hit, so no problem or do you think there's no way birdshot will go through a wall and harm loved ones?