Be careful where you purchase suppressors!

turnandshoot4 · Jun 28, 2012

6 months? You've never seen the suppressor in question?

We can handle a business getting a bad review. The whole "pm if you realy need to know" is absurd. YOU got screwed badly, why not let everyone else know?

I'd like to get this straight for myself. You bought the suppressor. The suppressor never arrived to the dealer. The dealer gave you a serial number. From that serial number you filled out your paperwork and sent it in. 6 months later you are on here and mad. As far as I know, you can't put in for a transfer until your dealer has been approved.

Am I close?

DarkRose · Jun 28, 2012

This isn't the first time I've heard bad things about SniperCo...

For a purchase that big (not necessarily money-wise, but time and legal ramifications) ask around and find out who others recommend who have been through the process. You'll find lots of reputable dealers recommended by folks on here. I'm hoping to go through the process soon (buying a house has slowed things a bit) and already have a very short list of dealers I'm interested in checking with when I pull the trigger on my suppressor purchase...

Research research research!

(Not bashing at all, just my :twocents:

)

Britton · Jun 28, 2012

tmanbuddyy,
If you don't get this resolved and you get screwed out of a suppressor, I will give you a Huntertown Arms Guardian for free. I don't want you turned off to NFA because of a bad experience with one dealer and I would really like you to experience the quality and innovation of Huntertown Arms products.

ctbreitwieser · Jun 28, 2012

Wow, I wish you guys were closer to me. You are a rare breed sir! :ingo:

Amattern · Jun 28, 2012

WOW that is awesome! Because of this I will be making drive up to buy something from you guys, who knows maybe a suppressor. This is why you support local shops. Name an online dealer that would do something like this.

curraheeguns · Jun 28, 2012

This isn't just an indication of how 21st does business, it shows the true character of Britton himself. I'm proud to call him a friend.

tmanbuddyy · Jun 28, 2012

Trust me I am as confused as you. As fare as I know there are 2 of us going through this process. Here it is I went to the dealer bought a suppressor I held in my hand. Then purchased the suppressor I personally checked the serial number. Have a copy of my form 4 I sent in with that serial number along with a store recite with serial number. Mailed my paper work out with a cashier check. Called my BANK check was cashed on 1-18-12. Then I get a phone call from the dealer claming some sort of mix-up with the serial numbers. But it was all taken care of. 6 months I try to call in and check the status on my paper work they tell me, that the serial number I have doesn’t match any thing on file. So I call the dealer they give me the correct serial number, so I think, call again sorry that number is not on file either. Sooooooooo here I am. The dealer explained that the problem would be resolved and only slow the process down a week or so… I have no idea what my form 4 will look like when it comes back (if it comes back) I worked hard to make everything perfect so I would have a flawless transaction.

Amattern · Jun 28, 2012

Since sniperco is a supporter here maybe they will chime in on this also?

dubsac · Jun 28, 2012

This ^^^^^^^ is great service. +1 to you britton and 21st century

Sailor · Jun 28, 2012

Mistakes happen. How they are handled shows what kind of business you are dealing with. You should have to be bringing your problems here. Best of luck.

Drakkule · Jun 29, 2012

21st is great to deal with, they sold me my first can last year, and SSNFA sold me my second, both were great to deal with, and i would have no problem buying from either again.

Mayday671 · Jun 29, 2012

Sniper Company Response

I am actually the person that tmanbuddyy or his wife spoke to at Sniper Company. I spoke to two people yesterday about the issue, one was a customer and the other was a customer’s wife. I am not sure whether tmanbuddyy is the customer I talked to or the husband of the woman I talked to. Anyways I am a manager there and this issue was discussed yesterday at length. Unfortunately at that time you heard the explanation of what happened and I appologized even though it wasn't our fault. It’s unfortunate that you felt it was best to go home and vent on the internet. I have absolutely no issues with returning your money for your suppressor. We do not feel the need to log into INGO and bash other manufacturers or dealers, we do not do business like that and we do occasionally make mistakes, however we stand behind our mistakes and correct them. I used to spend all my money at 21st Century before beginning part time employment at Sniper Company. Dave helped me out on some gun purchases for a benefit I was holding for a wounded veteran. We send customers to 21st Century, Freedom Firearms, Gander Mountain, and at times Bud's Gun Shop if we do not have or cannot get a product for a customer. That being said, it pains me to see the posts from 21st Century in this thread when they do not know the actual story. I am also shocked by the amount of people who instantly jump on the side of tmanbuddyy without knowing the entire story.

If you care to know the entire story, keep reading. I do apologize for being long winded.

So here goes so you can all know what really happened. Huntertown Arms dropped off (5) Guardian 22lr Suppressors to Sniper Company. All 5 suppressors were logged in and put in the case. A few weeks went by and 3 of the 5 suppressors were sold (one of which was sold to tmanbuddyy). About a week or so went by and I received a phone call from Steve at Huntertown Arms stating that they mistakenly gave us 5 suppressors that were form 3’d to a different dealer and he was going to send someone over to pick them up. I asked Steve, “what about the 3 customers who already purchased 3 of them and have sent their paperwork in with those serial numbers on them”. I was told he wasn’t sure but to call the examiner and he had to come swap out the 5 suppressors since they were not form 3’d to us. Steve’s wife came in and swapped the 5 wrong suppressors for the 5 correct suppressors. I then called our examiner and explained the situation to her and she assured me that as soon as the 3 customers paperwork arrive on her desk she will send the form 4 to me and I can add the correct serial number to the form. She assured me it would be no more than a 5-7 day delay. This is the reason we no longer do business with Huntertown Arms.

I find it laughable that they informed tmanbuddyy that they cut ties from us. I’m sorry to expose all this, especially on the internet where many people seem to gain courage or spread untrue information. I did not inform tmanbuddyy or the woman I talked to of the exact cause of the mistake because I wasn’t out to throw anyone under the bus, but it seems I was forced to. My question to tmanbuddyy is, why didn’t you express all this yesterday when we talked? Or if it was your wife I talked to why didn’t you call or come in and discuss the issue with me. It was my understanding that both the man and woman I talked to understood what happened and were fine with how I was handling it for them. However I come in this morning to check messages on INGO and find a nasty thread with many untrue accusations.

All I can say is I find the whole internet forum ranting ridiculous. I can understand if you discuss the issue and try to work things out with a company and then they still refuse to make it right, unfortunately we were not offered this courtesy. I cannot fix an issue and do what is right for a customer without knowing there is even an issue. At no time did either caller ask for a refund, and seemed more than happy about how I corrected the issue with the ATF , that being said, we are more than willing to refund your money at any time.

I hope in the future people actually go to the dealer and express their concerns and give the dealer the opportunity to correct the issue before running to the internet and only throwing their version of the story out there. It’s always best to work things out in person before running to the internet, maybe I’m just old school and actually believe in taking my issues up with the person I have an issue with rather than get everyone else involved.

We pride ourselves on being knowledgeable and taking care of our customers. We make mistakes and we always stand behind them and correct them. I hope tmanbuddyy contacts us and either let us refund his money or let me continue to work with the ATF and get his suppressor to him as soon as we can. Either way the ball is in your court.

combat45acp · Jun 29, 2012

^^This for sure, and maybe Corey will toss in a T-Shirt too

backfire · Jun 29, 2012

Dang guys, that is an AWESOME gesture and outstanding customer service!

This is why I have purchased the loin's share of my new firearms and a lot of my ammo from Dave & Co. at 21st, because it's always a pleasure doing business with them. (which is rare, because they always hook me with something... :):

) even if I don't buy something when I'm in there. Heck, even my wife has gone in there to buy stuff and the guys there always take care of my daughter by giving her a tasty sucker everytime she comes in there with me.

BTW- I'll be in there soon Dave to get a can for my S&W MP15-22 you sold me!

Take his offer O.P., you'll never find a need to go anywhere else and I hope everything works out well for you.

Stainer · Jun 29, 2012

Sounds like a mistake that was out of SniperCo's hands with full disclosure to not only the customers affected, but now to all of us. tmanbuddy is this how it went down? If so, and all of this was discussed with you, what was the point of this thread. I don't want to start a war here, but it sounds like it was more of Huntertown's fault than anyones. It was a mistake and it was corrected by all.

1946 · Jun 29, 2012

Mayday671 says in his post "a few weeks went by". The OP says in his post that this has been ongoing for 6 months........which is it?

ctbreitwieser · Jun 29, 2012

Seems like two very conflicting stories. Im interested to see how this turns out. It seems as though both Huntertown Arms and SniperCo did/are doing what they can to get this resolved. Good luck to everyone and hope you all get this worked out.

SemperFiUSMC · Jun 29, 2012

There are always two sides to a story, and the truth lies somewhere in between.

First, the reason the whole story came to light wasn't because of a bad serial number. It was because I got a call from an upset customer who purchased one of my cans from a dealer I no longer sell to (and contrary to a previous assertion, who HAS ordered cans from us after this incident. My decision to stop selling them suppressors only came about after they threw us under the bus in order to peddle other manufacturer's suppressors whom they distribute for. But that's neither here nor there.) who told me that there was not only a screw up but that he had been told the can may have been sold to someone else. He explained he was given at least three different serial numbers and felt he was being bait and switched. I suggested that while I do not think the Internet is an appropriate forum for complaints, I thought in this case it might be. I stand by that assessment.

I personally deliver a lot of cans to my INGO dealers because I want to make sure we do things right , and will do whatever it takes to fix a problem, and I want the feedback first hand and immediately. We have an incredible dealer network whom we work with very closely, and whom I have developed friendships with. I am proud to work with the Indiana Class III dealers who have chosen to carry our products.

While I would like to say we never screw up, that would be an absolute lie. A couple weeks we shipped a K5 with no internals in it. I drove almost 400 miles to fix it the day I found out we screwed up. Yesterday I drove another 200 miles because we delivered 4 aluminum Guardians when they should have been stainless steel, first having to buy back cans from AGS because we are out of stainless steel baffles because of the run on suppressors.

In this case we had an approved form and unfortunately put the wrong suppressors in the right boxes. It happens. Contrary to the assertion that it was a few weeks, according to my log books we caught it a week later. I personally called SniperCo and explained the screw up, and immediately dispatched an employee (not a wife - I haven't had one of those for quite a while) with the proper cans and five free cases to give to their customers because of the screw up (did you guys get your free cases?). Nothing was ever said about cancelling orders (which there were pending and were consequently delivered) or terminating the business relationship over a mistake. To say otherwise is absolutely misstating the truth. We took an order after this for a couple cans, but after hearing about the bad mouthing our customers reported at that shop I cancelled them.

So what happened? The form 3 was correct, the cans were wrong. A simple check of the serial number on the suppressor against the serial number by the dealer on the form would have caught the error that same day. Obviously that didn't happen, and it's easier to cast blame on others when they lack the opportunity to defend themselves. So we now have two mistakes that have devolved into a cluster.

Almost immediately I got a call from a pissed off customer. I explained the situation, and he was cool about it. It made me wonder - why would you not just call a mistake a mistake? Why the need to throw anyone under the bus? Don't really know, and don't really care. After it happened fabout the third time, they were put on the do not sell to list. Existing orders were cancelled, and that's where we are.

We ship over 2,000 suppressors a month. We are among the largest suppressor manufacturers in the country, and we do it right here in Indiana. We have a growing dealer network of about 400 dealers nationally and have national distribution partners. It is unfortunate that any dealer gets upset with us, and we do our honest best to fix all situations that aren't perfect, but when a dealer starts bad mouthing us we will cut them off. We have other dealers we don't do business with any longer. This is the first time the circumstances warranted saying anything about it. I hope it is the last.

So what all went wrong here?

We accidently dropped off the wrong suppressors with the right form. Our bad. We have implemented procedures to ensure it never happens again.

The suppressors were logged in by the dealer without checking the approved transfer documents. Not our bad.

The customer was told that the can was sold to someone else. Not our bad.

The customer felt like he was being run around and there was nowhere to turn but us. Not our bad.

Blaming us for bad customer service is like blaming the guy who loaded the coal on the Titanic for hitting the iceberg.

I've said as much as I'm going to, and I hope that you two get your suppressors OK. When you get them let me know and I'll upgrade them to Kestrel 22 cores for free.

Rookie · Jun 29, 2012

Two INGO advertisers. Two different stories. I know where my money is.

KG1 · Jun 29, 2012

It sounds like there was plenty of blame to go around and an unsuspecting customer got caught up in the middle.

I think everybody should just own up to their own mistakes in this kerfuffle and do whatever it is in their power to make it right by the customer.

Since the customer was the one that dealt with SniperCo directly then they are the ones that need to get this taken care of yesterday.

This whole thing between SniperCo. and Huntertown is a separate issue that the customer should not get caught up in.

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