Bar carry. Dead horse

[Scarnucci]

Yes, it's legal. No, there is not a chance in hell I'm handing my firearm over to anyone other than a LEO who is ordering me to do so under color of law.

He had better have a warrant to seize my gun. They need either a warrant or an exigent situation to seize someones property. You run the risk of running into an anti-gun judge, I suppose, but I'll always make them jump through the proper and legal hoops before handing over my legally carried firearms. I AM required to turn over my pink card, if asked, but that is all I am required to give up.

 

[loony1]

I dunno, i never thought about surrendering my firearm to a 21 year old person serving alchohol. I bartended for the better part of 10 years and never once had somebody offer up there arms. I would truly hope you have explained to your coworker that he is a complete douchbag. thank you

 

[Scutter01]

He had better have a warrant to seize my gun. They need either a warrant or an exigent situation to seize someones property. You run the risk of running into an anti-gun judge, I suppose, but I'll always make them jump through the proper and legal hoops before handing over my legally carried firearms. I AM required to turn over my pink card, if asked, but that is all I am required to give up.

If I get pulled over for a traffic stop and the LEO orders me to relinquish my firearm ("for his safety" ) then I will do it as that is not the appropriate time to dispute his right (or lack thereof) to do so. That comes later during the civil rights complaint.

 

[Scarnucci]

If I get pulled over for a traffic stop and the LEO orders me to relinquish my firearm ("for his safety" ) then I will do it as that is not the appropriate time to dispute his right (or lack thereof) to do so. That comes later during the civil rights complaint.

That is your prerogative. I would prefer to hold to my rights and make them wake up the judge then and there instead of hoping to win the battle of "his word vs mine" after the fact.

I dont feel that there are appropriate times, and inappropriate or inconvenient times to make certain my rights are being recognized.

 

[Joe Williams]

That is your prerogative. I would prefer to hold to my rights and make them wake up the judge then and there instead of hoping to win the battle of "his word vs mine" after the fact.

I dont feel that there are appropriate times, and inappropriate or inconvenient times to make certain my rights are being recognized.

The problem is, the officer will not wake the judge. He will stick his gun in your ear, and pull the trigger if you make him the least bit antsy. And for the kind of cop that feels it necessary to disarm American citizens legally carrying, it won't take much to make them antsy.

Seems a lot less messy and noisy to take Scutter's approach, simply make clear that your compliance is not voluntary, and settle the issue in court later when you are not all... you know... dead.

 

[Eulogy32]

If I didn't carry into a bar, it sure would look funny swallowing bullets with my shots.

"Fire it up, fire it up!"

 

[Suprtek]

settle the issue in court later when you are not all... you know... dead.

Yup. What good is it to be right if you're "dead-right"?

 

[Compatriot G]

I worked in a liquor store for a few years. I always carried a firearm with me at work. It was against store policy, but I figured I could always find another job if I needed to. I looked at the Indiana Code carefully before I did it and found nothing to prohibit firearms in a business that served alcohol.

However, you would be surprised at the number of LEO's that believe it is illegal to carry in a bar. My cousin is a police dispatcher. We have debated this very subject. Many of his co-workers are police officers.(they work dispatch part-time) He swears up and down that his LEO co-workers tell him it is illegal to carry in a bar. I have shown him the Indiana Code repeatedly. So, it is possible to have an issue with ignorant cops when it comes to carrying in a bar.

 

[451_Detonics]

Why would you want to carry a gun into a bar in the first place? S**t happens in bars, might not be your fault but I would hate to have to defend myself after having a drink or two then having to shoot some dirtbag in a bar after he staggered into me then took offense and whipped out a knife.

I carry everytime I leave my house. I won't carry in a bar. Solution? Stay out of bars.

 

[libertybear]

Why would you want to carry a gun into a bar in the first place? S**t happens in bars, might not be your fault but I would hate to have to defend myself after having a drink or two then having to shoot some dirtbag in a bar after he staggered into me then took offense and whipped out a knife.

I carry everytime I leave my house. I won't carry in a bar. Solution? Stay out of bars.

So what do you do when said knife comes out in the bar and you have no gun? Do you have super mad ninja skills or something? I don't and that situation right there sounds like a good reason to carry, I suppose you could always use your cell phone and wait for LEO.

 

[finity]

Why would you want to carry a gun into a bar in the first place? S**t happens in bars, might not be your fault but I would hate to have to defend myself after having a drink or two then having to shoot some dirtbag in a bar after he staggered into me then took offense and whipped out a knife.

I carry everytime I leave my house. I won't carry in a bar. Solution? Stay out of bars.

It doesn't matter if your falling down drunk or stone cold sober, a good self-defense shoot is a good self-defense shoot. An idiot who pulls a knife on you unprovoked is a good self-defense shoot.

 

[samrothstein01]

I carry everytime I leave my house. I won't carry in a bar. Solution? Stay out of bars.

Not that I go to bars often...in fact, rarely. But heck, Applebees serves booz, so does Ruth's Chris. I just can't see letting the potential actions of someone else dictate where I will and will not go. Isn't that why we carry in the first place, because of the potential actions of someone else? If I want to go to a public place and enjoy myself, my company, and a game of pool, darts, or some other activity, I shouldn't feel like I can't defend my life if it became necessary. I also shouldn't feel like I can't go and enjoy myself because I choose to carry.

Just my

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yes, it's legal. No, there is not a chance in hell I'm handing my firearm over to anyone other than a LEO who is ordering me to do so under color of law.

Ok, I can see where one might think its illegal... lots of people make assumptions about bars, banks, etc.

BUT WHO THE HELL WOULD THINK THE LAW WOULD REQUIRE YOU HAND OVER A WEAPON TO SOMEONE WITH ZERO AUTHORITY OF ANY KIND????

I was unaware that bartending school taught firearms handling.

Who would think it? Probably someone related to the same idiot assistant manager in the grocery store (Marsh, was it?) who demanded someone either leave or hand over his gun.

I was unaware that you had to go to bartending school?
Now that I think about I wonder if the OP's friend lives in Indiana

Maybe the guy either doesn't drink much or has visions of Tom Cruise in "Cocktail".

I know Im beating it

Bar carry is completely legal correct?

Before you jump on me, this is why I ask

A fellow coworker attended bartending school and training and whatnot, used to work at a bar. He states that the only way you can walk into a bar carrying, is if you turn your weapon over to the bartender.

Now I am not creating this thread to bash him or insult a person, but I just wanted to clear this up

The burden of proof of this is on him, not you. If you're both in Indiana, challenge him to a bet. For something to be unlawful, there must be enacted law prohibiting it. Tell him if he can find such a law at the state level, you will pay his attorney fees, if any, for finding it PLUS $250. If he cannot locate such a law, his attorney fees are his own responsibility and he owes you $500.

Stupidity should hurt.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[beararms1776]

Drinking and carrying may not be good practice. IMHO, I wouldn't do it. This could be the kind of activity that changes the law for carriers.

 

[samrothstein01]

Drinking and carrying may not be good practice. IMHO, I wouldn't do it. This could be the kind of activity that changes the law for carriers.

First off....I have to say that I am not an advocate of strapping on my concealed carry rig, going to a bar, and getting drunk. As a matter of fact, my post earlier mentioned going to a bar to play pool/shoot darts, but never mentioned having a drink. Perhaps water or soda is a better choice. To each his own.

That being said....is it legal to carry concealed with a LTCH? Yep. Is it legal to go have a drink or five if you are over 21? Yep. Can I do both at the same time? Yep. Is it legal for me to pull my gun and wave it at people? NO. Is it legal to pistol whip someone or start shooting because the hustled me at a game of pool and I have been drinking? NO. Will I do hard time for the latter of the events? Likely.

My point is, if you drink and do something stupid with your gun, you broke the law and you will likely be punished accordingly. The law does not need to be changed to reflect that. Most law abiding and responsible citizens will never be in that position, and those that carry often will go out of their way to avoid conflict because they understand the responsibility of carry. However, if you change the law to not allow carry in bars, you have just turned what was once a responsible law abiding citizen into a potential criminal. And the biggest issue with this is that you also take away that persons right to defend themselves, because remember, criminals don't care about the law, the intend to break it anyways, so they will gladly carry into the bar and start shooting it up. Now how does that law abiding citizen protect themselves?

 

[beararms1776]

First off....I have to say that I am not an advocate of strapping on my concealed carry rig, going to a bar, and getting drunk. As a matter of fact, my post earlier mentioned going to a bar to play pool/shoot darts, but never mentioned having a drink. Perhaps water or soda is a better choice. To each his own.

That being said....is it legal to carry concealed with a LTCH? Yep. Is it legal to go have a drink or five if you are over 21? Yep. Can I do both at the same time? Yep. Is it legal for me to pull my gun and wave it at people? NO. Is it legal to pistol whip someone or start shooting because the hustled me at a game of pool and I have been drinking? NO. Will I do hard time for the latter of the events? Likely.

My point is, if you drink and do something stupid with your gun, you broke the law and you will likely be punished accordingly. The law does not need to be changed to reflect that. Most law abiding and responsible citizens will never be in that position, and those that carry often will go out of their way to avoid conflict because they understand the responsibility of carry. However, if you change the law to not allow carry in bars, you have just turned what was once a responsible law abiding citizen into a potential criminal. And the biggest issue with this is that you also take away that persons right to defend themselves, because remember, criminals don't care about the law, the intend to break it anyways, so they will gladly carry into the bar and start shooting it up. Now how does that law abiding citizen protect themselves?

I still would not OC into a bar. I would definately have it concealed or trouble could insue over anything. It is your right but you also want to protect that by not giving someone something to complan about after they've been drinking. Out of sight, out of mind. JMHO thats all.

 

[samrothstein01]

I still would not OC into a bar. I would definately have it concealed or trouble could insue over anything. It is your right but you also want to protect that by not giving someone something to complan about after they've been drinking. Out of sight, out of mind. JMHO thats all.

First off....I have to say that I am not an advocate of strapping on my concealed carry rig

That being said....is it legal to carry concealed with a LTCH?

and those that carry often will go out of their way to avoid conflict

Not that it has to be concealed to be legal, but per the text it seems that you and I are on a similar page.

 

[451_Detonics]

So what do you do when said knife comes out in the bar and you have no gun? Do you have super mad ninja skills or something? I don't and that situation right there sounds like a good reason to carry, I suppose you could always use your cell phone and wait for LEO.

Simple, I don't go into bars...period.

Not that I go to bars often...in fact, rarely. But heck, Applebees serves booz, so does Ruth's Chris. I just can't see letting the potential actions of someone else dictate where I will and will not go. Isn't that why we carry in the first place, because of the potential actions of someone else? If I want to go to a public place and enjoy myself, my company, and a game of pool, darts, or some other activity, I shouldn't feel like I can't defend my life if it became necessary. I also shouldn't feel like I can't go and enjoy myself because I choose to carry.

Just my

I don't consider restaurants to be bars...how many times has your local PD been called to the big bar fight at a yuppie place like Applebees? But when I go to a restaurant like that I don't drink...not even a beer.

Carrying a firearm automatically places us at a higher plane of responsibility. It is our duty to avoid situations that would result in use of deadly force. Would you knowingly walk into a ABATE meeting and yell "Bikers all suck" then shoot someone who decided to teach you a lesson? Of course not. But taking a gun into a bar is asking for trouble, and I feel taking an unnecessary risk. If you were forced to use the firearm your witnesses are a bunch of people who have been drinking and if his friends outnumber yours when it come testifying time I think you would be lucky to get off with Manslaughter, that is the word from one of the better defense lawyers I know. Ask any of the top instructors about carrying into a bar and drinking, I doubt you will find one who thinks it is a good idea.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.

 

[samrothstein01]

Simple, I don't go into bars...period.

I don't consider restaurants to be bars...how many times has your local PD been called to the big bar fight at a yuppie place like Applebees? But when I go to a restaurant like that I don't drink...not even a beer.

Carrying a firearm automatically places us at a higher plane of responsibility. It is our duty to avoid situations that would result in use of deadly force. Would you knowingly walk into a ABATE meeting and yell "Bikers all suck" then shoot someone who decided to teach you a lesson? Of course not. But taking a gun into a bar is asking for trouble, and I feel taking an unnecessary risk. If you were forced to use the firearm your witnesses are a bunch of people who have been drinking and if his friends outnumber yours when it come testifying time I think you would be lucky to get off with Manslaughter, that is the word from one of the better defense lawyers I know. Ask any of the top instructors about carrying into a bar and drinking, I doubt you will find one who thinks it is a good idea.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.

Ok, so Applebee's is yuppie...I kind of get that. It's yummie too.

You and I are on the exact same page, carrying a firearm is a HUGE responsibility. But it is not my responsibility to avoid going to some establishment that I enjoy just because I carry or because someone might be an a-hole. A-hole's are everywhere. That is equivalent to saying our right to carry is strictly dependant on where we carry.....which isn't much of a right at all.

Again, I never mentioned a word of having a drink, but perhaps enjoy the food, atmosphere, games, and friends. Even with A drink, it doesn't change much.

Your analogy of walking into an ABATE meeting and yelling something absurd is akin to going to a bar and waiving your gun. Just because you carry and go to a bar is not anywhere near trying to pick a fight. Two completely different animals. Those who are out to pick a fight have no business carrying a firearm. Those who carry go out of their way to avoid conflict...as I mentioned earlier.

I would be cautious of my defense lawyer telling me I cannot protect myself under any circumstance. I am not saying it is the "smart" thing to do. I am saying my life is worth more.

From personal experience, I almost died from getting jumped on my way from a bar to my car. Had I been drinking, yes. Would I have felt safe taking a shot....not sure. But I can tell you that I did nothing wrong, got in zero predicaments, was in a good part of town, and ended up with 3 teeth gone, major concussion, and 7 staples in my head. Had there not been anyone else around, I very easily could have been dead. No BS here.

Right, wrong, I honestly don't know. But I can tell you, I wish I would have been able to stand up for myself that night against 3 attackers. Instead, I thought it was the responsible thing to do to leave it at home.

 

[samrothstein01]

EDIT - I just removed some langauge that, after re-reading it, came across condescending, which certainly wasn't my intent.