Awesome punishment for flag burning

[Benny]

The person you seem to think is the victim (you know, the criminal) had a choice. Actually, he had several. He could have chosen to not go there in the first place. He could have chosen to go elsewhere rather than wait. He could have chosen to voice his displeasure quietly and maturely. He could have chosen to not be destructive of others' property. He could have chosen to man up, pay for the damage he caused, and settled with those who owned the property. He could have chosen a fight. He could have chosen police involvement and subsequent trial.

He chose the punishment he took.

When I was in middle school, the standard administrative response to more severe misbehavior (i.e. fighting) was "3, 3, or 5", that being five days of washing dishes at lunch, three days of on-campus suspension, or three smacks on the backside with a paddle. Very few students chose either of the latter options. Parents understood this and while some didn't much like it, they had the option of refusing to allow the corporal punishment on their kid. That said, given the choice, the kids usually chose the paddle. It hurt, but once done, it was done. The point is that the kid made the choices that got him (or her) into the office in the first place. What happened after that was hardly the fault of the school administration.

This guy had the choice of "3, 3, or 5", too. He could have chosen a fight; painful, but short duration. He could have chosen court; less severe but a longer term. Instead, he chose the middle ground of "not as painful as a fight but not as long-term as the trial sentence."

The difference is that it wasn't a school administration but rather a property owner, and he still had the option.

I really don't see why you seem to miss this. Is it that you worry that someday, someone might not give the court system as an option?

That's where I draw the line, too. As long as that option is on the table, I have no problem with this punishment.

ETA: Oh, as for your last... that right is one of those included in the 9A... for the criminal, in this case.

Blessings,
Bill

I'm not sure why some aren't understanding this.

 

[JetGirl]

I'm not sure why some aren't understanding this.

Reading comprehension skills...lacking?

 

[IndyBeerman]

'Fraid I just can't support violently attacking people for exercising their Constitutional rights. Doing so just means you are crapping on the Constitution to punish someone for burning a flag, which just seems worse to me.

Or do folks just believe in and defend our rights when they agree with them? The post commander said that guy would never disrespect the flag again. But.... what about the post commander himself, who spit on all the flag symbolizes?

You know if it would have been his flag, that's his darn choice even though I'm against flag burning, but the flag he burnt did not belong to him, it belonged to the VFW.
His arse should have been locked up for theft and destruction of property.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You know if it would have been his flag, that's his darn choice even though I'm against flag burning, but the flag he burnt did not belong to him, it belonged to the VFW.
His arse should have been locked up for theft and destruction of property.

And if the VFW post commander wasn't a man of honor, he would have given this mope a choice, let him choose the humiliation thing of being taped to the flagpole... and then when the parade was done, have the cops there to bust him anyway for the theft. Kinda humorous, that... at least in the abstract. I guess the criminal is lucky that there are men in this world who guard their honor jealously.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

The person you seem to think is the victim (you know, the criminal) had a choice. At no time did I ever think this criminal was a (you know, a victim) or refer to him as such .
He chose the punishment he took.
It shouldn't have been his choice in the first place .

The difference is that it wasn't a school administration but rather a property owner, and he still had the option.

I really don't see why you seem to miss this. Is it that you worry that someday, someone might not give the court system as an option?
I'm not overlooking anything here and contrary to what some seem to think reading comprehension has nothing to do with it .

Does someone have to die before it becomes vigilantism ?

So by your logic , the next time my neighbors kid breaks a mirror off of my truck while he's playing football , I can give the dad the option of a fight , be tied to one of my trees with a sign around his neck or get the LEO's involved ?

How about my other neighbors' LOUD SCREAMING kids interrupting my pursuit of happiness ? Should I give the dad the option of fighting me over it , me calling CPS or making him some sort of public spectacle ?

How about the guy a few houses down that lets his dog crap in my yard and doesn't clean it up and thereby destroys my grass ? It's my property he's destroying so I could hit him , tie him up or call the police right ?

For that matter , why can't I go rob a bank and get the option of a fight , being tied up for a few hours or having the police called ?

Where does it end ?

That's where I draw the line, too. As long as that option is on the table, I have no problem with this punishment.
Therein lies the problem , human nature . If they get away with this behavior this time , they will feel empowered thinking that the LEO's of their town condone this behavior or believe in their ability to make up and administer punishment .

Sooner or later , someone will take it too far .

I really do understand that the guy destroyed property that wasn't his and was punished according to his own wishes , I get that .

I always thought that a part of what makes us a civilized nation was the fact that we as citizens followed the laws, not made them up as we go to suit how we feel at the time .


Blessings,
Bill

.

 

[Joe Williams]

You know if it would have been his flag, that's his darn choice even though I'm against flag burning, but the flag he burnt did not belong to him, it belonged to the VFW.
His arse should have been locked up for theft and destruction of property.

True enough. And had I witnessed the incident, he would have found he didn't have a choice. I would have called the police.

On ALL parties involved in this vigilantism.

 

[Fletch]

"The more laws, the less justice." -- Cicero

 

[right winger]

He should have got his but kicked also.

 

[JetGirl]

had I witnessed the incident, he would have found he didn't have a choice. I would have called the police.

It was between the transgressor and the transgressed. The method of dealing with it was agreed upon by both. The outcome was completely consensual between two parties of legal age to enter into any binding agreement, verbal or otherwise. Frankly, that means it's none of your danged business.

 

[SavageEagle]

Point being...no matter what the circumstances are behind the "value" of the flag, it does not justify taking the law into your own hands and dishing out punishment.

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Too tired to do so. So if this point was made countless times, I"m sorry.

I'd have beaten the kid for destroying my flag. And apparently, the town police got a kick out of it because they allowed him to be tied up for 6 hours.

Good job guys! Jail wouldn't have solved anything!

 

[Joe Williams]

It was between the transgressor and the transgressed. The method of dealing with it was agreed upon by both. The outcome was completely consensual between two parties of legal age to enter into any binding agreement, verbal or otherwise. Frankly, that means it's none of your danged business.

Frankly, your wrong. Vigilantes are everybody's business. History shows that mob rule has a way of growing and spiralling out of control. And to claim that a person faced with an angry mob of thugs with no respect for the law actually had a choice is fantasy at best.

I've said my piece. I'm not going to say more. He was wrong for burning someone else's flag, they were wrong in their disrespect for the law, and for the flag they claim to have been protecting.

 

[SavageEagle]

Frankly, your wrong. Vigilantes are everybody's business. History shows that mob rule has a way of growing and spiralling out of control. And to claim that a person faced with an angry mob of thugs with no respect for the law actually had a choice is fantasy at best.

I've said my piece. I'm not going to say more. He was wrong for burning someone else's flag, they were wrong in their disrespect for the law, and for the flag they claim to have been protecting.

Mob rule? Thugs? Disrespect for the law?



I'd say it wasn't a mob, they weren't thugs, and jail would have solved nothing. We have hundreds of thousands of useless laws and overpacked jails and fines with the laws only designed to generate revenue.

This was not 'mob rule' and the kid got punished like he deserved. Good for those veterans. I'd like to shake their hand!

 

[Jay]

I always thought that a part of what makes us a civilized nation was the fact that we as citizens followed the laws, not made them up as we go to suit how we feel at the time .

Laws have become "after the fact reactions"........ had the law put a no trespass order against that clown, he could have burned the VFW down before the "law" acted. Not good enough. Laws have evolved onto tools for the criminal, much more than for the victim. Even Jessica's Law was not adopted by all states, and that's a law against the brutalization of children, for pete's sake. Instant accountability works well, and needs to be employed more often. I applaud the actions of the VFW folks involved. When/if laws in this country become truly blind, and not demographic clubs, I'll have a bit more respect for them. I willingly will be accountable for my actions, and I'll hold those I interact with in whatever capacity to the same standard.

 

[Fletch]

Frankly, your wrong. Vigilantes are everybody's business. History shows that mob rule has a way of growing and spiralling out of control. And to claim that a person faced with an angry mob of thugs with no respect for the law actually had a choice is fantasy at best.

I find your definition of "vigilante" disturbingly malleable. If appealing to the authorities is always the only right thing to do, we might as well all just turn in our carry licenses.

 

[JetGirl]

And to claim that a person faced with an angry mob of thugs with no respect for the law actually had a choice is fantasy at best.

The young man was given three choices: get turned over to the police...

Looks like he had a choice of someone calling the cops.
And DIDN'T WANT IT.

BTW, thanks for calling the VFW Vets "thugs". I'm sure they love you, too.

 

[nighthawk80]

Frankly, your wrong. Vigilantes are everybody's business. History shows that mob rule has a way of growing and spiralling out of control. And to claim that a person faced with an angry mob of thugs with no respect for the law actually had a choice is fantasy at best.

I've said my piece. I'm not going to say more. He was wrong for burning someone else's flag, they were wrong in their disrespect for the law, and for the flag they claim to have been protecting.

I am by no means a Lawyer, and will probaly get my butt handed to me with the correct laws pertaining to this matter but, I thought there were "Laws" pertaining to what happened. As in, if someone wronged you, and you and the Offender could hash it out amongst yourselves (within the boundries of the law) then there is no need to involve the court system.

I too believe that Vigilanteism is a dangerous road to start down, but the way I understand it, the two parties "hashed it out" amoungst themselves and agreed apon a mutual law abiding (even though humilitating) reconciliation.


(wow, I need to type faster, there were 4 responces before I could finish one )

 

[Jay]

hmmmm, Veterans have been called lots of things... "thugs" ? Not real impressive. Best of luck to you Joe. Remember us thugs while you enjoy the rights you have. The 1st amendment at it's best.... ? yeah, right


Here, have some more koolaid

 

[Joe Williams]

hmmmm, Veterans have been called lots of things... "thugs" ? Not real impressive. Best of luck to you Joe. Remember us thugs while you enjoy the rights you have. The 1st amendment at it's best.... ? yeah, right

"Cathy's Clown" ? that fits....
Here, have some more koolaid

Quit whining. Go somewhere else to be a victim. You aren't the only one to have served. I've earned the right to express my opinions just as you have.

Course, you could TRY taping me to a flag pole for exercising the rights we both claim to cherish.

 

[Jay]

Course, you could TRY taping me to a flag pole for exercising the rights we both claim to cherish.

Your rights do not extend to my Flag,. You could TRY to cut it down and burn it, but you wouldn't like the result.

 

[JetGirl]

I've said my piece. I'm not going to say more.