Automotives Companies Fight Against Home Repairs

[BogWalker]

Gearheads push to preserve rights to work on their own cars

Certain manufacturers, such as John Deere and GM, are using copyright laws to try and prevent independent mechanics and owners from repairing their own vehicles. The issue is electronic control units. The manufacturers deem that the coding to them is their sole property, therefore unauthorized use of them, such as installing your own replacements, is illegal. If they get their way repairs could only been done when, where, and how the manufacturers authorize it.

 

[paintman]

wow. sounds like a good way to put yourself out of business when people buy else where so they can do what they want.

 

[phylodog]

Seems ridiculous based on what we are used to but I see is as a logical result of how things are going. We have become a largely service based economy and the manufacturer's want a slice of that pie. Either the market will bear it or it won't. Worst case scenario there will be a market for open source vehicles in the future as well as an entire industry supporting "jailbreaking" and making "mods" to vehicles similar to other electronic devices.

 

[mrjarrell]

Seems like the logical extension of the whole "intellectual property" debate. This is what they've been going towards for years. If it's electronic or digital you don't own it, you're simply licensing it and it can be taken back at the whim of the "creator".

The new Trans Pacific Partnership agreement will make things even worse in that area, as it will strengthen that line of "reasoning" and encode it into law, US and international.

 

[BogWalker]

I'll have to look into that Trans Pacific agreement, I hadn't heard of it.

There's a lot of insidiousness going on with electronics now, such as how Facebook owns the distribution rights to any photographs you put on there. How long before the computer company legally owns whatever you put on one of "their" devices?

And people think I'm crazy for insisting on a vehicle with the least amount of electronics possible in it. I did it for reliability reasons, but this is just another factor to support my decision.

 

[Bennettjh]

I'll have to look into that Trans Pacific agreement, I hadn't heard of it.

There's a lot of insidiousness going on with electronics now, such as how Facebook owns the distribution rights to any photographs you put on there. How long before the computer company legally owns whatever you put on one of "their" devices?

And people think I'm crazy for insisting on a vehicle with the least amount of electronics possible in it. I did it for reliability reasons, but this is just another factor to support my decision.

Less electronics, less stuff to go wrong.

 

[Dead Duck]

Well, just because we buy something doesn't mean that we own it.
It's not like we actually built it. And even if we did build it, we didn't really build it.



Starting to sound familiar....

 

[ModernGunner]

Just more libtard thinking.

Good time to start giving libtards the boot, as often as possible. Send the libtards to Iran. Libtards hate America as much as Iran does, anyway.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Why would a car company care about what I do to my house?

 

[Leo]

They can have my Snap-On roll around tool chest after they pry my M14 out of my cold, dead fingers!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Car companies have been doing this, and not just with electronics, since probably the late 70's or early 80's. There is no practical reason, from an engineering or functional standpoint, that you should have to practically pull your engine just to change the spark plugs, but that's the way they make them. Most people are forced to take the vehicle to a mechanic for this simple maintenance. This would just take it a step further by requiring you not to take it to just any mechanic, but to one of "their" mechanics.

 

[gundoc111]

wow. sounds like a good way to put yourself out of business when people buy else where so they can do what they want.

Never happen. Look at how soon people FORGOT about Obama using OUR money to bail G.M. out?

Is it wrong? HELL YES IT IS, but the "BAIL OUT" turned me off to G.M. crap years ago.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Car companies have been doing this, and not just with electronics, since probably the late 70's or early 80's. There is no practical reason, from an engineering or functional standpoint, that you should have to practically pull your engine just to change the spark plugs, but that's the way they make them. Most people are forced to take the vehicle to a mechanic for this simple maintenance. This would just take it a step further by requiring you not to take it to just any mechanic, but to one of "their" mechanics.

Some of the difficulty in maintenance from how a vehicle is designed is because the engineers and designers don't have to take that into consideration. If their design was mocked up and they had to do some of these things themselves I can guarantee that this would be quite a bit different.

 

[Principal Skinr]

With all this doom and gloom, I must point out a few things. First, with plug and play electronics, there is an aftermarket. Also, as they try and get more control, the more it breeds attempts around it. Can't get your Toyota ECM fixed at an independent shop? Buy one not made by Toyota. Piracy will also rise as they do this kind of thing. This kind of legal wrangling has gone on my entire life. It is nothing new. I remember when Ford tried to buy ALL of their dealerships to gain more control over the sales and repair process "to improve the consistency of the customer experience." Tried and failed.

Honestly, cars are lasting longer than ever. Mine have, for sure. The only electronic problems I've had in my vehicles that I can remember are a stereo that needed a simple reprogramming (covered by warranty), power seat button in my Mercedes, an ABS module that went bad on my '99 Silverado at 100k miles, and a transmission electronic control that freaked out for 5 minutes in a '96 4Runner I used to own. I've had mostly GM vehicles, with a couple of Jeeps and a couple Fords, and other than what I listed, I can't think of an electronic failure in hundreds of thousands of miles and nearly 3 decades of driving.

I don't think the sky is falling here. Btw, I just two months ago changed all drivetrain fluids, air filter, serpentine belt, shock absorbers, and SPARK PLUGS myself on my Jeep. I did the brake pads awhile back, too. All by myself. On top of that, I had an independent shop change the ball joints and align it. If you want a vehicle on which it is easy to work, check out the Jeep Wrangler. Fold that hood all the way back to the windshield and you can almost crawl in there! You can buy a brand new one in 2015 that is the same way.

If they build it, someone else can take it apart and fix it or even better, modify it. Good luck to them trying to control all of this.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Just more libtard thinking.

Good time to start giving libtards the boot, as often as possible. Send the libtards to Iran. Libtards hate America as much as Iran does, anyway.

Why do you hate big business?

 

[Principal Skinr]

Car companies have been doing this, and not just with electronics, since probably the late 70's or early 80's. There is no practical reason, from an engineering or functional standpoint, that you should have to practically pull your engine just to change the spark plugs, but that's the way they make them. Most people are forced to take the vehicle to a mechanic for this simple maintenance. This would just take it a step further by requiring you not to take it to just any mechanic, but to one of "their" mechanics.

Oh yes there is a practical reason. Fuel economy and efficiency of design. Space is at a premium when saving weight and trying to increase interior space. Performance is a reason, too. Cramming a larger, more complicated engine into a tight space. Want an example? Look at a 40 year old Ford Econoline van, from the golden days of shade tree mechanics and tell me the spark plugs are easy to change. The good news is that today, you have plugs that last 100k. Back then, you had to change them every 20k.

I remember hearing my Dad cuss up a storm working on our 1968 Chevy Impala, so it wasn't all easy, even back then.

BTW, there are vehicles you can buy today that are not that hard to work on. Lots of choices out there.

 

[Leadeye]

The good old days.

 

[jon5212]

They won't be able to stop it... the aftermarket arena with sports cars and diesels alike will always be able to crack any engine module. EFI live, Spartan, HPtuners you name it. I fail to see how it is infringing on a copyright of software... all those programs do is change the software... it doesn't get distributed to anyone, you can't "sell" it, and really especially on the diesels you gain mileage and horsepower especially after getting rid of those DPF filters and the urea injection.

 

[Bowman78]

Part of me agrees with this as I have first hand experience to understand the complicated territory that this issue covers... If most folks on here realized the amount of effort put into the software that runs and shifts your automobiles, it would melt your brain. Thousands of man hours go into 0-20 mph let alone all the other variables.. It's akin to a symphony to make a car run seamlessly as they do.. Most people cannot understand the complexity of modern machinery.. All that said when proprietary software is removed and replaced a trusted source is the only viable means of removal and installation that manufacturers can trust... Their intellectual property their ruses.. I thought most were capitalists on here??!!!

 

[gunsisgood]

If most folks on here realized the amount of effort put into the software that runs and shifts your automobiles, it would melt your brain. Thousands of man hours go into 0-20 mph let alone all the other variables.. It's akin to a symphony to make a car run seamlessly as they do.. Most people cannot understand the complexity of modern machinery..

Its a flippen car for heaven sake not a rocket ship.
I don't want to melt whats left of my brain trying to understand it, I just want to get from point a to point b.