Asked to Leave Logansport Mall for OCing Off Duty

[100Xkid]

I have been ask to leave Walmart twice in Kokomo because my cover shirt did not caver will enough.
As far as the " we will let it slide" they can only ask you to leave.

 

[HiRoller]

Did the janitor have on Jackboots ?

 

[ScouT6a]

My bad. I thought both threads were discussing the same topic. OC/CC

 

[12bee]

I didn't read all of the posts, but I will add that in the 70's and early 80's all of the police I knew were required to carry off duty in Elkhart. Now I don't know if this was a departmental, county, or state requirement.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I have been ask to leave Walmart twice in Kokomo because my cover shirt did not caver will enough.
As far as the " we will let it slide" they can only ask you to leave.

They can't ask you to leave.

 

[long coat]

They can't ask you to leave.

Why not.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Why not.

That is a question. Please use a question mark.

They cannot ask you to leave, because Wal Mart corporate policy is to follow state law. You are not violating state law, and therefor cannot be asked to leave. This has been discussed. If they ask you to leave, talk to the store manager. If you don't get anywhere, get their names, and call corporate and complain.

 

[Hammerhead]

Are you absolutely positive about the unicorn farts?

No. Next time I capture a unicorn, I'll be happy to test the theory.

 

[Dead Duck]

No. Next time I capture a unicorn, I'll be happy to test the theory.

He's all yours, Baby.

 

[jbombelli]

That is a question. Please use a question mark.

They cannot ask you to leave, because Wal Mart corporate policy is to follow state law. You are not violating state law, and therefor cannot be asked to leave. This has been discussed. If they ask you to leave, talk to the store manager. If you don't get anywhere, get their names, and call corporate and complain.

They can still ask you to leave. If you complain to corporate, they might call them and harp about it, but they can most certainly ask you to leave. They can even ban you from the premises and have you arrested for trespassing if you return.

 

[Burnsy]

That is a question. Please use a question mark.

They cannot ask you to leave, because Wal Mart corporate policy is to follow state law. You are not violating state law, and therefor cannot be asked to leave. This has been discussed. If they ask you to leave, talk to the store manager. If you don't get anywhere, get their names, and call corporate and complain.

They in fact can. If you do not, see trespassing. It is against their current policy but sorting that out in the moment instead of when you get home will get you lawfully arrested for trespassing. They can tell you to gtfo for any reason they choose to. Private property and all.

 

[MikeDVB]

"Positions of power attract bad apples"
My point exactly.

Awesome, we agree ... Nothing to see here - move along .

Not many people in our daily lives have more discretional power than a police officer. And many make a choice to abuse it.

Everybody has the power of discretion, we just don't all have discretionary powers that can clearly affect others on the level an officer's discretionary powers can. That said, there are certainly a lot of officers out there that don't abuse their powers. I suggest not painting all officers with the same brush.

You ever hear the expression, "the fox guarding the hen house", Sir?

So you're going to 'solve the problem' by recording offers exceeding the speed limit and reporting it to their superiors? If that has any real impact on the 'bad apples' - by all means keep doing it. I mean who am I to judge you for your personal hobbies?

It has been proven before and it was proven in this case that property owners/managers can and will make you leave the property if they or their customers or employees are scared.

That's fine - and I will respond by not ever going there again, not spending my money there, and making sure like minded individuals are aware of the experience. I have no issues with any of this and I choose not to spend my money where my rights are not respected.

It all depends on how many places you want to "boycott" I suppose.

Or how many cops you want to tattle tale on... er... yeah - boycott.

In a serious response to what you've said - I've Open Carried for well over a year and have come across absolutely 0 places that have asked me to leave or to disarm. Are there places out there? Sure, but they won't have my business.

Usually a few times a year I call 911 to report a suspected impaired driver.

Good for you - I do the same if somebody is driving recklessly or putting themselves or others at risk on the road. Do you feel this somehow justifies your other activities?

That doesn't mean I want to be in a position of authority, just means I am a responsible citizen/driver and concerned about my safety and the safety of others.

So, in the process of being concerned about your safety and the safety of others, you match the behavior [i.e. to get an accurate speed on the officer] and then you report it? What, exactly, makes it safe when you do it but not when the officer is doing it [speeding, that is]?

Why in the world would you make the decision to carry a handgun if you are not concerned about these sort of things?

Because I don't care, in the slightest, what somebody else may have to say about me exercising any of my rights under the Constitution or granted by my creator. You don't like it? Go pound sand.

Absolutely not. If you want to cuss like a sailor in church or your child's pre-school feel free.

But having an inanimate object in a place where it's 100% legal isn't ok?

You would be fine with me standing in the middle of a restaurant yelling and swearing like a sailor [i.e. making a huge scene] but not simply sitting and enjoying a meal quietly with my family and/or friends while carrying openly? Do you understand the definition of the word "hypocrite"?

Want to talk smack about our president in front of the Secret Service, go right ahead.

I'm sorry, but relevance?

Say whatever you please to the cop that stops you, they love that.

Nah, I don't have to say anything at all. It is, in fact, better if I say little to nothing at all. I have the right to remain silent and I can and will exercise it.

Walk in tomorrow and tell your boss off. I am sure none of these people will have any issue with this once you explain your 1st Amendment rights to them. Judgment, common sense, discretion. Ever hear any of those words?

You've lost me - what does any of this have to do with me carrying a firearm legally or exercising my first amendment rights to free speech?

Don't really understand how this correlates to this discussion.

You seem to believe rights are conditional - they should only be exercised when others are comfortable with them... So I ask - are you ok with this? You want us to exercise our 2nd amendment rights conditionally - so why should the 2nd amendment be the only one that's conditional?

How about the entire bill of rights is conditional? They're no longer inalienable rights of the people but privileges that some people can take advantage of when the conditions are appropriate under your view.

Make one of them conditional, and they all become conditional.

And yet you are still 100% in the right. huh...........

Right or wrong, you're still saying the same thing that we've all heard dozens or hundreds of times. I'll let you in on a little secret - just because "a lot" of people may believe something does not, in fact, make it true or accurate.

I suppose it all boils down to how much attention/recognition a person needs when it comes to OC. Some are obviously needy than others.

There are some that OC for attention but they are the minority of open carriers. I, personally, carry openly because it's the most comfortable and convenient method. Do I want people to hassle me? No. Am I prepared for it if it happens? Absolutely.

I myself enjoy the element of surprise. Other's mileage may vary.

I prefer avoidance to surprise. I would rather avoid a situation where drawing my pistol was necessary than to have the 'element of surprise' as it were.

That said, go read the thread I linked you in my previous reply. You'll find this has already been discussed so much that the dead horse you're beating on has already turned to dust and blown away in the wind.

At the end of the day - a right not exercised is a right lost.

 

[Burnsy]

Awesome, we agree ... Nothing to see here - move along .

Everybody has the power of discretion, we just don't all have discretionary powers that can clearly affect others on the level an officer's discretionary powers can. That said, there are certainly a lot of officers out there that don't abuse their powers. I suggest not painting all officers with the same brush.

So you're going to 'solve the problem' by recording offers exceeding the speed limit and reporting it to their superiors? If that has any real impact on the 'bad apples' - by all means keep doing it. I mean who am I to judge you for your personal hobbies?

That's fine - and I will respond by not ever going there again, not spending my money there, and making sure like minded individuals are aware of the experience. I have no issues with any of this and I choose not to spend my money where my rights are not respected.

Or how many cops you want to tattle tale on... er... yeah - boycott.

In a serious response to what you've said - I've Open Carried for well over a year and have come across absolutely 0 places that have asked me to leave or to disarm. Are there places out there? Sure, but they won't have my business.

Good for you - I do the same if somebody is driving recklessly or putting themselves or others at risk on the road. Do you feel this somehow justifies your other activities?

So, in the process of being concerned about your safety and the safety of others, you match the behavior [i.e. to get an accurate speed on the officer] and then you report it? What, exactly, makes it safe when you do it but not when the officer is doing it [speeding, that is]?

Because I don't care, in the slightest, what somebody else may have to say about me exercising any of my rights under the Constitution or granted by my creator. You don't like it? Go pound sand.

But having an inanimate object in a place where it's 100% legal isn't ok?

You would be fine with me standing in the middle of a restaurant yelling and swearing like a sailor [i.e. making a huge scene] but not simply sitting and enjoying a meal quietly with my family and/or friends while carrying openly? Do you understand the definition of the word "hypocrite"?

I'm sorry, but relevance?

Nah, I don't have to say anything at all. It is, in fact, better if I say little to nothing at all. I have the right to remain silent and I can and will exercise it.

You've lost me - what does any of this have to do with me carrying a firearm legally or exercising my first amendment rights to free speech?

You seem to believe rights are conditional - they should only be exercised when others are comfortable with them... So I ask - are you ok with this? You want us to exercise our 2nd amendment rights conditionally - so why should the 2nd amendment be the only one that's conditional?

How about the entire bill of rights is conditional? They're no longer inalienable rights of the people but privileges that some people can take advantage of when the conditions are appropriate under your view.

Make one of them conditional, and they all become conditional.

Right or wrong, you're still saying the same thing that we've all heard dozens or hundreds of times. I'll let you in on a little secret - just because "a lot" of people may believe something does not, in fact, make it true or accurate.

There are some that OC for attention but they are the minority of open carriers. I, personally, carry openly because it's the most comfortable and convenient method. Do I want people to hassle me? No. Am I prepared for it if it happens? Absolutely.


I prefer avoidance to surprise. I would rather avoid a situation where drawing my pistol was necessary than to have the 'element of surprise' as it were.

That said, go read the thread I linked you in my previous reply. You'll find this has already been discussed so much that the dead horse you're beating on has already turned to dust and blown away in the wind.

At the end of the day - a right not exercised is a right lost.

Gotta say man, normally I agree with you. This post, way to many quotes TLDR lost interest. Argue one or two points well.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I suppose it all boils down to how much attention/recognition a person needs when it comes to OC. Some are obviously needy than others. I myself enjoy the element of surprise. Other's mileage may vary.

Mike covered everything. I just want to touch on this comment.


Element of surprise. I hear that a lot. As Mike said, I prefer avoidance to surprise. I would rather not be attacked at all, than be attacked, and defensively ambush my attacker with a hidden firearm.

Ambush is not a defensive tactic. The "element of surprise" is one of the stupidest, most ridiculous arguments you guys use. You admit that when a criminal sees a gun, they flee. Why would I wait until I am in a compromised position of security to reveal that I am armed? Why wouldn't I want to deter him from attacking me in the first place? If you think a BG will stop stabbing you when he sees you have a gun, why do you think he would go after a person who is visibly armed?

When do you use your "EOS?" Do you wait until your opponent has the upper hand? Help me understand your severely flawed "logic." I cannot comprehend that much stupidity.

 

[Burnsy]

"If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street." I have been in several less than ideal places around the world where I was forced to go unarmed. I was never a target, regardless of the fact that I didn't have a handgun. You can still present a hard target that does not invite attack.

The idea that you presented yourself as a hardass and that prevented attack is as difficult to quantify as OC in the same situation. That said even if you present yourself as a unarmed "hard target" an armed criminal 90lb female or child will still take your life if that is their intention.

If in your situation it worked, why should it not apply in any other magnification of the force scale?

You are being a hypocrite by saying your show of unarmed force was effective but that a show of armed force will not be effective. This is just illogical.

 

[MikeDVB]

Gotta say man, normally I agree with you. This post, way to many quotes TLDR lost interest. Argue one or two points well.

Meh, I'm thorough. ;-)

Typed that entire response up in a couple minutes with 3% left on the laptop battery...

 

[Burnsy]

No worries I just kept scrolling and scrolling an scro.....zzzzzzzzzzzzz topic kept changing, difficult to comment on or reply to without 30 quotes in turn.

 

[MikeDVB]

No worries I just kept scrolling and scrolling an scro.....zzzzzzzzzzzzz topic kept changing, difficult to comment on or reply to without 30 quotes in turn.

No worries ;-).

 

[Zoub]

So, Boycott Logansport Mall at all cost.

You just stay down in Kokomo where you belong and there won't be any more trouble..........

As for me, kind of hard to boycott a place I have not been to since 1981-82. Back then it was a better mall. Santa might get attacked by a drunk guy with a knife only to get his A** kicked by Santa.

 

[Prometheus]

Yes, it is a real deal, I went to the Dunhams in Kokomo and bought the eotech from them, I did have a 20% off coupon that was about to expire so I got a hell of a deal lol

I will always stand up for the rights for all of us to carry LEO or not.....

Oath Keeper. +1.to you sir. Thank you.