Armed Schools

[PistolBob]

My kids went to Carmel schools and when I went to the high school a few years ago I was surprised to see a mini Carmel Police station inside the school.

That surprised you? Are you in the least familiar with the kinds of crimes the Carmel School Corporation has had to deal with in just the last 4 or 5 years? Sexual assaults, child molesting, drugs, guns, it's almost as bad as IPS, they just do a better job of keeping it out of the press.

 

[PistolBob]

That's been my thinking. Have any teacher that wants to carry trained and carrying concealed. Same with parents that want to carry into the school. IF they are trained in weapon retention and close quarters armed response as the cops are. And only the administration knows who they are. The cops will take too long to get there and when they do arrive they have to gear up and take time to assess the situation. By that time dozens are dead and the shooter has either fled or killed himself, which is still not acceptable.

By the time the cops get to any of these mass shooting events, the shooting is over with and the gunman is usually dead at his own hand or no longer on the scene.

Spontaneous violence is not going to be stopped by some cop playbook.

 

[drillsgt]

Why not just hire a few off duty LEO's? IPL does it to guard sub-stations when copper thefts are up, I think the schools could probably do it, too.

Arming faculty is fine IF they are also trained. Self-defense is one thing and the basics can be grasped with very limited training, but active shooter response requires training of a higher order, and good scenario based training with lots of role players. Frankly, most PDs don't practice this enough. Other than combat veterans, few people can really understand the chaos that an in progress shooting is and how quickly your senses get overwhelmed.

Friendly fire is a very real situation with multiple plain clothes folks armed. I'm a detective and when I respond to a call that isn't already secured by uniformed officers I give a description of myself and my clothing over the air. Anyone armed in the school needs to have coordinated training with the PD, communications with the PD, etc.

Frankly, schools should be hardened targets. The doors should be locked and difficult to breach, parents and vendors should meet in a vestibule, and there should be a cadre of armed security on site. Hire a force protection specialist, let them analyze the building and then listen to the recommendations.

There's only so many off duty LEO's to go around and who would want that boring job for eight hours (plus you're adding in $$ which nobody likes)? Perhaps you could offer it to Reserves as a way to get in their hours though. I think you're making it a little more complicated than it is. Just give the faculty/staff the option of carrying if they want to and give them a list of good training courses in the area. Even untrained i'd rather have a teacher or staff member huddling with their children and a gun rather than nothing.
I don't know if we could expect these teachers/staff to go and seek out the gunman, this active shooter training you speak of, but apparently as we've seen recently some of these teachers are pretty courageous. Frankly, I disagree on departments doing more active shooter training, it's a waste of resources and time, they haven't gotten there in time yet to do anything more than assist victims and secure the scene. All this active shooter training does is make the sheep feel good that people are "ready" and trained for something like this, even in small towns the response has just been too slow, not disparaging the responders but it is what it is.
You're last paragraph is sensible but again it falls on the school to make the changes. I did a security/threat assessment for a school at IUPUI and gave a presentation to the faculty after VA Tech but in the end it was just a feel good measure and nothing changed.

 

[Robjps]

I agree with the retired/off duty police being in schools. But never arm students or teachers without extensive training.

I think you over estimate most police firearms training. A 2 day class with a real instructor would be an upgrade compared to what most get.

 

[Valvestate]

I was talking to a few people about this same idea. We all know that gun control mostly hurts innocent people. I read in the Post about Valpo schools, oh we're prepared and blah blah. No, I don't think so. They mentioned the same exact protocols that probably all schools use. Huddling in closets/corners, locking doors, shutting lights, and using a buzzer to let people in. No mention about when doors are wide open to let kids in and out at the start/end of the day. No mention of what protocol is between when a threat is identified as already being in the building with staff having a visual of the threat and before the first fatality. Oh they have an automated system to call, text, and email parents. Great. A parent gets to know right away after the damage is done that they may have a body to identify. F*cking really?

 

[hammer24]

 

[justknapping]

^^^ I love this one too might make em think twice

 

[hd1971]

Good article on Foxnews.

Stop school shootings by letting teachers fire back, say Texas officials | Fox News

 

[cwagner1]

One of my best friends is a teacher, and she has told me that she wishes she could ccw at her school.

They're expected to just lock the doors and pray the shooter doesn't pick their room to gun down.

 

[cosermann]

“After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Philippines, with similarly successful results.”

“Unfortunately, in this country, logic has been buried under political correctness. Those in power whose ego is invested in brie et Chablis values that include scorn for the peasantry they accuse of ‘clinging to guns and Bibles’ will never see that logic. Children will continue to die in gun-free zones hunting preserves for psychopathic murderers, and the cowardly murderers will continue to surrender or kill themselves as soon as armed good guys show up…far too late.”

Source: - Massad Ayoob » Blog Archive » AGAINST MONSTERS

The first and most efficient step is to arm people who are already there. Allow teachers, staff, and parents carry who wish to do so. You get double bang for your buck because there already there doing their thing and the capability to effectively resist violence is a side benefit (which you essentially get for FREE simply by allowing what should ALREADY be lawful in the school).

 

[Hookeye]

Armed cop at my kids school, have been for a few years.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

My highschool (5,000+ kids at the time of graduation) always had two IPS Police and one IPS Police K-9 unit on grounds at all times. Unfortunately I don't think smaller population schools get the same security attention. Having armed teachers trained in the use of their firearms with a means to barracade themselves in a classroom is the only effective solution.

 

[RonnieF]

I have always said I believe there should be at least 2 people armed in a school in this life and time you never know what could happen