Are New IND 5 Cartridge Game changers ? share what it's like? guys w/ Out State

[openwell]

Someone once tried to hand me a 30-30, but I could run faster than they could. If I were you I'd also sit out any further ballistic discussion.

Interested in knowing the factors used in your Ranking System. Obviously we will sidestep energy, but other physics? Drift? Drop? Velocity at impact? Maybe cut wide latitude around vacated positions and consider available bullets?

yes, as mentioned earlier YMMV
Please offer us your wisdom, like facts, experience and a conclusion.
Please feel free to rank away.
Make sure and include your ballistic testing, equipment and the such.
Go all out.
Let's see what you got?
BTW it should benefit the target audience of hunters
that have yet to hunt with any of the 5 centerfire rifles available.

 

[M4Madness]

The main benefit I'll see from my .308 will be being able to use a suppressor. The secondary benefit will be accuracy. Extended range doesn't mean much to me, even though I have access to areas where I could take a thousand yard shot. I prefer hunting forested ridges, where a hundred yards would probably be about the limit of visibility.

 

[Michigan Slim]

I've used a .30-30 for a long time. It might carry energy to 200-225 but the rifles that shoot it aren't the most accurate. As with any of the new cartridges, just because the #s say you can does not mean YOU can. Keep it reasonable folks. A rifle doesn't make you a good shot. Practice does.

 

[AGarbers]

The main benefit I'll see from my .308 will be being able to use a suppressor. The secondary benefit will be accuracy. Extended range doesn't mean much to me, even though I have access to areas where I could take a thousand yard shot. I prefer hunting forested ridges, where a hundred yards would probably be about the limit of visibility.

Can you explain this to me? I have been told that a bullet needs to be traveling at less than sub-sonic for a suppressor to work. All .308 loads I have dealt with travel way above that. Or are you reloading sub-sonic loads?

 

[phylodog]

Can you explain this to me? I have been told that a bullet needs to be traveling at less than sub-sonic for a suppressor to work. All .308 loads I have dealt with travel way above that. Or are you reloading sub-sonic loads?

You've been mislead. You will still get a "crack" from the bullet breaking the sound barrier but the sound is dramatically reduced with a quality suppressor. I'm told that a .30 caliber suppressor will not drop the levels down to be truly hearing safe but I've fired thousands of standard velocity rounds through my .308/suppressor combo without hearing protection and it knocks a significant portion of the edge off and doesn't feel like it would be damaging.

 

[AGarbers]

A friend of mine wrote this piece.
Editorial: The Sky Isn't Falling Because of HB1231 - WildIndiana.com

 

[shibumiseeker]

Can you explain this to me? I have been told that a bullet needs to be traveling at less than sub-sonic for a suppressor to work. All .308 loads I have dealt with travel way above that. Or are you reloading sub-sonic loads?

A bullet needs to be subsonic to be "Hollywood" quiet, but generally a suppressor is good even for regular ammo to help knock the sound down to less damaging levels. It also reduces recoil.

 

[GREEN607]

My two deer/predator rifle are .270 and .308. Either is plenty enough out to 250 yards (actually a bit further), but I won't be hunting anywhere that allows me much over 150 yards, anyway. My first 'rifle kill' on deer, in WI was with a .243Win.

My late Dad took his last 3 deer, in Missouri, with a scoped custom .308 pistol, built on an XP100 action.

 

[d80hunter]

More accuracy will be my biggest gain. The last few years I've hunted with a .458socom so the muzzle energy is the same as my .308win I plan on hunting with this year. 2moa is the best I've ever done with my hunting loads, and I limited myself to about 200 yards because of it and the more curved trajectory. I would feel pretty comfortable with the longest shot I could take on my property which is about 400 yards with my .308 hunting load which is running just shy of 1moa. Not that I plan on specifically looking for a longer shot, but it'll be nice to know I can take it if I want. The optics on my .308 is much better than on my .458 which was set up with a 1x4 because I generally figured out to about a hundred yards as the longest typical shot I would take with the .458.

My .450 Bushmaster is a sub-moa rifle grouping a little better than my Savage 7mm-08 with factory ammo. I would expect the .458 to be capable of better than 2 MOA. Maybe different ammo would help.

 

[Mgderf]

My late Dad took his last 3 deer, in Missouri, with a scoped custom .308 pistol, built on an XP100 action.

I have a Savage Striker "pistol" in .308 Winchester. It's a left-handed, bolt-action, 3-round internal magazine, and has a 16" threaded barrel.
I've been wanting to take a deer with it for a couple of years, but each time I've taken it out, I've seen exactly nothing...

 

[Tynimiller]

I would use Kentucky windage and just guess if I had to take a shot at 300, but I don't see myself needing to shoot that far, as most of my shots will be within 75 yards.

Had to? Please elaborate? Even if Booner steps out, this is the most improper way of thinking ever. I suspect you were tongue in cheeking this part but incase others read this, YOU NEVER JUST GUESS on a shot....you don't take the shot.


As for the 5 new cartridges allowed I concur with some other thoughts, the .243 is PERFECT for recoil sensitive folks/kids so long as they keep shots within say 150 yards or so...otherwise if someone finds it necessary to shoot further either go ML or one of the other 4 cartridges. Myself...I'm a bow hunter this low has little impact on me other than more excuses to buy firearms...if I gun hunt which is rare I prefer my pistol .44 mag or my ML...however now an old 30-30 lever could be enticing as well...

 

[shibumiseeker]

My .450 Bushmaster is a sub-moa rifle grouping a little better than my Savage 7mm-08 with factory ammo. I would expect the .458 to be capable of better than 2 MOA. Maybe different ammo would help.

I suspect I could get a little better out of it with the right bullet/load combination and better optics, but I didn't build it to be a tack driver and I've never worked up loads for higher precision because that wasn't a priority. I feel it's pretty good accuracy with a 405gr cast solid. My .308 will be shooting 168gr Sierra GameKing with the same load I use with my MatchKings when I am shooting from the bench as that's what I use for coyote and the two are almost identical as far as hunting is concerned.

Further, I am always a little suspicious of sub-moa claims. Most people who claim to be shooting sub-moa groups are often talking about an occasional 3 round group they get which is statistically useless. I shoot ten to twenty round groups when I talk about what a rifle is capable of. Given that parameter, my .308 is running about .95moa averaging. I could brag and say I've shot .6moa with it, but that was only a few times. Typical with 10 round groups is about .8 regularly with the occasional over one moa. I would challenge most folks who talk about how accurate they are with their rifles to use the same parameters and then see. I doubt I could get the particular .458 rig I am using to get better than about 1.5moa no matter how well I tuned the ammo to it.

 

[Tynimiller]

I suspect I could get a little better out of it with the right bullet/load combination and better optics, but I didn't build it to be a tack driver and I've never worked up loads for higher precision because that wasn't a priority. I feel it's pretty good accuracy with a 405gr cast solid. My .308 will be shooting 168gr Sierra GameKing with the same load I use with my MatchKings when I am shooting from the bench as that's what I use for coyote and the two are almost identical as far as hunting is concerned.

Further, I am always a little suspicious of sub-moa claims. Most people who claim to be shooting sub-moa groups are often talking about an occasional 3 round group they get which is statistically useless. I shoot ten to twenty round groups when I talk about what a rifle is capable of. Given that parameter, my .308 is running about .95moa averaging. I could brag and say I've shot .6moa with it, but that was only a few times. Typical with 10 round groups is about .8 regularly with the occasional over one moa. I would challenge most folks who talk about how accurate they are with their rifles to use the same parameters and then see. I doubt I could get the particular .458 rig I am using to get better than about 1.5moa no matter how well I tuned the ammo to it.

Yup people claiming to shoot sub MOA...I put in the same category as guys that claim to shoot robin hoods all the time too with their bows....happens sure, consistently...give me a break. Unless you are one of the few, which you instantly can tell these guys.

 

[openwell]

I'm interested in one-shot groups!
My rifles all perform & I know how.
From cold, dirty barrel fire one shot from bench Day 1.
ditto, Day 2, then Day 3;
Superimpose targets and I know how my rifle shoots from steady hold.
Day 4, off-hand fire one shot,
ditto, Day 5, then Day 6.
Again, superimpose targets 4 through 6.
I know how my rifle shoots standing or off-hand
with a "cold, dirty" barrel just like when hunting.
BTW, my rifles shoot different with "clean" barrel,
so I always fire a "fouling" shot.
Practical advice, take it or spoof-it YMMV

 

[whiteoak]

I'm a Hoosier but hunted KY for 15 years in Crittenten Co. and took at least 25 deer with rifles there. My Father took about the same numbers with a .243 and .270 I used the .243, 270 and 30-06 during that time. The 243 with 100gr at 3000 could be a DRT gun under the best conditions. We used them for the first five years. But after a long track on one that the bullet fell apart on the shoulder, my father and I up gunned to 270's with 130gr at about 3000, They seemed to work just about the same and I'm not sure that the 270 is any better if you broadside them through the ribs, but think that a little extra weight of bullet is better if you do hit a shoulder first. The same with the 30-06 at 3000 with a 150gr, or 2800somthing with a 165, about the same as the 270. We were hunting in the woods so almost all shots were within 100 yards, with a few shots out to 300 when we happened to see one in a field on the way in or out from the stands. At the time we were hunting we used standard Cup and Core bullets from Speer and Sierra, It was a long time ago and there just were not any bonded bullets on the market. Some of the guys we hunted with used 30-30's and to me they seemed to work about as well as the .44 I have been using for the last several years in Indiana. Bang, the Deer runs off for between 30 and 80 yards and drops dead. But the 30-30 could do that out to 200yrds or so and the .44 was 150yrds on its best day. The .270/30-06 seemed to be neck and neck and would drop them in their tracks or let them run for a short (say 20 to 50yards) with noticeably more blood from the entrance and exit and or blood coming from nose. The .44 and 30-30 would both kill deer in their tracks, the 30-30 more often with a chest cavity shot, but not as often as a 270/30/06 will. With the new bullets all rounds will be better, and my bet is a bonded .243 will now be closer than ever to being the equal of the bigger rounds but they to have improved with better bullets. My dad is now in his 70's and wants me to get his .243 ready for this year with Nosler Accubonds because he likes the light recoil. And my bet is he never feels the need to up-gun to the 270 again. I'm working up some plastic tip, 150gr loads for the 30-06 this year, and now have a Win 94 in 30-30 I will play with also. But really wish I could use the 270. Hopefully it will come along in the next few years.

 

[amboy49]

The main benefit I'll see from my .308 will be being able to use a suppressor. The secondary benefit will be accuracy. Extended range doesn't mean much to me, even though I have access to areas where I could take a thousand yard shot. I prefer hunting forested ridges, where a hundred yards would probably be about the limit of visibility.

Admittedly I don't have any real experience with suppressors so please enlighten me as to why a suppressor is beneficial for in a hunting situation ? The only thing I can think of is if you would be hunting a very populated area and didn't want to disturb the neighboring residents (?)

 

[two70]

As for the 5 new cartridges allowed I concur with some other thoughts, the .243 is PERFECT for recoil sensitive folks/kids so long as they keep shots within say 150 yards or so...otherwise if someone finds it necessary to shoot further either go ML or one of the other 4 cartridges.

To each their own, but that .243 you are limiting to 150 yards has more energy left past 150 yards than most muzzleloaders.... and is likely to be far more accurate. Deer are not bullet proof and the .243 has more than enough energy to cleanly take deer at longer ranges than most people have any business shooting.

 

[phylodog]

Admittedly I don't have any real experience with suppressors so please enlighten me as to why a suppressor is beneficial for in a hunting situation ? The only thing I can think of is if you would be hunting a very populated area and didn't want to disturb the neighboring residents (?)

The most obvious is reduced likelihood of hearing damage to the hunter. A secondary but valuable advantage is in masking the direction of the shot. At distance it is difficult, of not impossible, to determine where a shot came from when fired through a good suppressor. A wounded animal or a clean miss just might head in the direction of the hunter. You also get a reduction in recoil which increases the possibility of watching the animal through the shot and seeing whether you got a good hit.

 

[openwell]

To each their own, but that .243 you are limiting to 150 yards has more energy left past 150 yards than most muzzleloaders.... and is likely to be far more accurate. Deer are not bullet proof and the .243 has more than enough energy to cleanly take deer at longer ranges than most people have any business shooting.

Of the 5 cartridges the .243 and 30-30 both have less practical range for deer.
They will be excellent for some. Most will handicap themselves using them.
Outfitters and hunters of antelope, which are smaller than most IN deer
recommend .270 as min. because of shot distance and wind out west.
The 30-06, 308 and 300s will offer better results and satisfaction for most.
I have taken six antelope and one mule deer in MT,
all with a 270 Win (30-06 necked down to .270 Win) and never felt under-gunned.
Any of the 5 cartridges will work well in Indiana, but why handicap yourself.
YMMV

 

[Tynimiller]

The most obvious is reduced likelihood of hearing damage to the hunter. A secondary but valuable advantage is in masking the direction of the shot. At distance it is difficult, of not impossible, to determine where a shot came from when fired through a good suppressor. A wounded animal or a clean miss just might head in the direction of the hunter. You also get a reduction in recoil which increases the possibility of watching the animal through the shot and seeing whether you got a good hit.

Using HPR you still will get the "crack" but it reduced...M4 doesn't make his .308 sound like a .22