henktermaat
Master
- Jan 3, 2009
- 4,952
- 38
The LEO should have kept his opinions to himself. It's not his job to go around spouting off his opinion of how people should carry. +1 to the OP for handling the opinionated jackwagon very well
Ya just can't have a civil conversation with some folks...
Agree, but if the cop isn't going to ask to see license, then there is no reason for approacing the MWAG in the first place. The rest was "small talk". The officer gave his opinion and the OP ignored it.IF Indiana state law allowed anyone and everyone to carry firearms, you may have a point. However, since the current laws only allow specific individuals to carry, and prohibit certain other individuals, the dispatcher and officer handled this one spot on.
I would have laughed at the person if they did that to me.Had the CP (calling party - complainant) approached the OP and asked for an LTCH
That would have been a fun thread...appraching guy with guns drawn while he is going about his bizness, legally.Dispatcher could have sent several officers who then approached the OP like storm troopers.
Too bad the dispacher couldn't have told the caller it's legal to carry in Indiana, this line is to be used for emergency purposes only...good day.Assumption is the caller indicated the OP wasn't causing trouble.
Agreed.Consequently an individual officer (backup no doubt enroute) had a business conversation with the OP and determined all was well. Dispatcher and officer served the public. CP was taken seriously. OP wasn't hassled.
To be left alone and not have to deal with cops for being a good citizen.Crap people, what else do you expect in these situations?
Btw.
Coerce - to persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by use of force or threats.
Feel free to show any statement that remotely meets the definition of coerce.
Ya just can't have a civil conversation with some folks...
I think it's probably safe to say that most problems with open-carry response from police officers is a lack of familiarity with the statutes that govern the carry of handguns in Indiana. When an officer appears unfriendly toward open carry, it's probably because his/her department has failed to expend the effort to train him/her in proper handling of the call, including protection of the citizen's rights under Indiana statutes.
Seems to me he is trying to coerce him to not OC.
doesnt every leo get taught about ltch laws in indiana? are there actually leos here in indiana that dont know what an ltch is and the laws that apply to it?
Another issue I see with LE. Too much emphasis on the officers to be the parents of society. I don't mind LEOs being parents when it comes to punitive actions for law violations, but that is where things should end. If someone ask for an LEOs opinion, by all means, LEOs should be able to give it. However, why the need to give a parental lecture to a person who hasn't requested advice and has done nothing wrong. I can see giving warnings about "If you continue to do x, y,... then you will be violating such and such law." but general comments about lawful conduct...that can sometimes makes these encounters turn into a bad encounter.
This is mostly a personal view based upon my personality. I'm pretty quite unless I really get to know someone. I don't mind sharing my beliefs, but some incidents are different. I personally hold the minimalist view when it comes to policing. Officers should investigate for a criminal law violation, if no violation, part ways. Small talk so long as it doesn't appear that the state is giving an opinion on how people should act (outside of warnings for possible future law breaking). I can see how an armed agent of the state telling people how they should live their life, when their current conduct isn't illegal, would rub some people the wrong way. Of course I can see the LEO side as well: The more people that walk around with guns showing, the more MWAG calls that will come.
No. I believe officers should be taught where to find laws, and the definitions of those laws. ILEA and employing agencies need to do more in this area. For far too long officers knowledge when it comes to specific language within the Indiana Code has been lacking. I'm OK with doing more on the training side, but we need to start holding officers personally accountable as well. Departments should even give officers an hour a week to get on-line and review the Indiana code. Start giving out tests at roll call, get everyone involved and have a group learning exercise.
When a citizen breaks a law, they can't use ignorance of the law as a justification for their behavior. Yet when officers wrongfully arrest or detain people, admin is quick to use "this is a training issue." Well, not really.
+1 to Indy317.
I'd rep you but I'm posting from my phone, and it doesn't like the rep function.
Why do I think that had a lot to do with the LEOs point of view in the OP?The more people that walk around with guns showing, the more MWAG calls that will come.
I think if I was an LEO dispatched to a MWAG situation the dispatcher would already have ascertained that it wasn't a nasty situation and would have conveyed that to me. The operator would have already asked the caller if the MWAG was treatening anyone-"no", is he waving his gun around?-"no"; what is he doing?-"just standing there with it in a holster." Obviously it isn't a mass shooting or a hostage situation and I know that going in. Hence I'm at ease but alert.
I can tell you with a high degree of certainly that this is exactly how it occurred. I can also tell you that given what's in the OP, this thread has made way too much of this entire incident. What other LEOs have tried to convey here is, people who submit MWAG reports (or any 911 call for that matter) are often involved in a situation that is potentially traumatic for the caller. Sure, the honest God fearing individual carrying the gun is at ease and confident that all is well. Unless we have a lot of mind readers running around in society, no one else knows that Mr. OC is not up to mischief.Of course it was a priority call.
Now the responding Officer downgraded it after chatting with the individual, but up to that point where the Officer concluded that the person was not a threat, it was a priority call. He gave a "disregard" to his backup when he realized what was going on. It was absolutely dispatched above other, less important calls.