Another Mass Shooter Addicted to Marijuana | Liz Wheeler Show Ep. 169

[phylodog]

I'll give you a hint. You can die in minutes from exposure to only 800ppm of carbon Monoxide even though the gas is not itself poisonous and you are literally swimming in oxygen at the time

Carbon monoxide's affinity for hemoglobin is 240 times that of hemoglobin for oxygen

If that doesn't help, I'll see if I can find my crayons

How does that relate to the topic at hand? If there is a fatal amount of THC the body can handle either no one has done it or it's being intentionally concealed. That would lead me to believe it's more along the same level of toxicity to the human body as clean water. People do die of over-hydration but the amount it takes to kill someone is almost ridiculous, to the point it's not worth mentioning.

 

[BugI02]

The increased affinity for the receptor causes carbon monoxide to hang onto hemoglobin far more tenaciously so that even though oxygen still makes up 20% of each lungful you suffocate

I'm not implying the amount of THC could be fatal, the part he is questioning is whether the effect will have a longer duration. The high is generated by THC binding to cannabinoid receptors and does not wind down until metabolization disrupts that binding. What would you expect the effects of a compound with a 33x greater affinity for those binding sites to be if not a longer duration high?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

"It's not a lie if you believe it"

From a citation included in my previous post

Since it has a longer side chain, its cannabinoid effects are "far higher than Δ9-THC itself." [<--- I kind of think that covers the 'more potent' part you were looking for] It is said to have at least 30 times higher affinity to cannabinoid receptors than THC

I'll give you a hint. You can die in minutes from exposure to only 800ppm of carbon Monoxide even though the gas is not itself poisonous and you are literally swimming in oxygen at the time

Carbon monoxide's affinity for hemoglobin is 240 times that of hemoglobin for oxygen

If that doesn't help, I'll see if I can find my crayons

I'll give you hint, CO2 isn't THC or analogs thereof. And I quoted directly from your source,

 

[BugI02]

I'll give you hint, CO2 isn't THC or analogs thereof. And I quoted directly from your source,

CO2 isn't CO (the subject of my analogy) either, not sure what that has to do with anything

You don't have to actually run an experiment in order to deduce certain behaviors given general information about a chemical

 

[phylodog]

The increased affinity for the receptor causes carbon monoxide to hang onto hemoglobin far more tenaciously so that even though oxygen still makes up 20% of each lungful you suffocate

I'm not implying the amount of THC could be fatal, the part he is questioning is whether the effect will have a longer duration. The high is generated by THC binding to cannabinoid receptors and does not wind down until metabolization disrupts that binding. What would you expect the effects of a compound with a 33x greater affinity for those binding sites to be if not a longer duration high?

I wasn't arguing that point but I see the relevance now.

From what I've found through talking with people and researching, there seems to be a limit to how much THC the body can utilize at one time. The result being a "plateau" or extremely high tolerance. That seems to be one of the significant differences between cannabis and the other schedules substances (and alcohol for that matter); there does not seem to be a completely linear effect of it. Do too much cocaine, meth or heroine and you die. Drink too much and you eventually pass out before any critical harm is done to the body, though it rare situations it will eventually lead to death via a couple possibilities.

With cannabis, the seriously heavy users end up in a place where it's basically just a daily maintenance/medication for them. No matter how much they take in, they become almost immune to it. The common advice to get around this is to take a two weeks "tolerance break" to reset the cannabinoid receptors (or something) . Take Joey Diaz (comedian). He's known on his podcast for having 1000mg THC cookies that he'll give out to people. For the average person that is an insane amount and will undoubtedly be a miserable experience. Joey Diaz can eat two of them and continue the podcast. Most edibles I've seen in dispensaries come in 5mg or 10mg servings.

No scientific backup, just observations and no claims that everyone reacts the same.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

How does that relate to the topic at hand?

Does carbon monoxide make you smile?

 

[rugertoter]

Fixed for political correctness.

Thanks for fixing that...I was having a case of the vapors.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Thanks for fixing that...I was having a case of the vapors.

 

[G_B_C]

The only thing getting mass murdered are snacks.

 

[BugI02]

I wasn't arguing that point but I see the relevance now.

From what I've found through talking with people and researching, there seems to be a limit to how much THC the body can utilize at one time. The result being a "plateau" or extremely high tolerance. That seems to be one of the significant differences between cannabis and the other schedules substances (and alcohol for that matter); there does not seem to be a completely linear effect of it. Do too much cocaine, meth or heroine and you die. Drink too much and you eventually pass out before any critical harm is done to the body, though it rare situations it will eventually lead to death via a couple possibilities.

With cannabis, the seriously heavy users end up in a place where it's basically just a daily maintenance/medication for them. No matter how much they take in, they become almost immune to it. The common advice to get around this is to take a two weeks "tolerance break" to reset the cannabinoid receptors (or something) . Take Joey Diaz (comedian). He's known on his podcast for having 1000mg THC cookies that he'll give out to people. For the average person that is an insane amount and will undoubtedly be a miserable experience. Joey Diaz can eat two of them and continue the podcast. Most edibles I've seen in dispensaries come in 5mg or 10mg servings.

No scientific backup, just observations and no claims that everyone reacts the same.

I'm in the same boat. The original thrust of the discussion, except for the vocabulary nazi part, was about whether high potency MJ could trigger psychotic behavior in those predisposed to it - the speculation about whether the latest shooters were regular users as well as on the usual SSRI/antidepressant cocktail. The idea was brought up that higher proof alcohol doesn't make you an alciholic faster, or something, and I pointed out that a plant would have lots of other chemicals in it besides THC and perhaps breeding for potency could increase other chemicals which could affect people in novel and unexpected ways - I mean think of all the chemicals created in tobacco when you inhale the smoke from burning it. I then pointed out one such chemical, THCP, in order to prove that there are indeed variant chemicals that affect the character of the high. Very little scholarly research has been done on the variant but companies are already rushing to market vaping modules and extracts because technically it is legal in most states. So almost all sources are pro-weed groups discussing how to maximize the high using this poorly understood chemistry rather than exhibiting any skepticism. I am guessing the dearth of scholarly research is due to it still being scheduled. There is even a wholly lab made derivative called THC-O that has a high described as hallucinogenic. I can't point to any quality research on effects, but seems like it should at least be considered that more and more drugs do not seem to fix a shattered mind

Please feel free to criticize my (lack of) punctuation and my word choice instead of addressing the point, it will save others the trouble

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm in the same boat. The original thrust of the discussion, except for the vocabulary nazi part, was about whether high potency MJ could trigger psychotic behavior in those predisposed to it - the speculation about whether the latest shooters were regular users as well as on the usual SSRI/antidepressant cocktail. The idea was brought up that higher proof alcohol doesn't make you an alciholic faster, or something, and I pointed out that a plant would have lots of other chemicals in it besides THC and perhaps breeding for potency could increase other chemicals which could affect people in novel and unexpected ways - I mean think of all the chemicals created in tobacco when you inhale the smoke from burning it. I then pointed out one such chemical, THCP, in order to prove that there are indeed variant chemicals that affect the character of the high. Very little scholarly research has been done on the variant but companies are already rushing to market vaping modules and extracts because technically it is legal in most states. So almost all sources are pro-weed groups discussing how to maximize the high using this poorly understood chemistry rather than exhibiting any skepticism. I am guessing the dearth of scholarly research is due to it still being scheduled. There is even a wholly lab made derivative called THC-O that has a high described as hallucinogenic. I can't point to any quality research on effects, but seems like it should at least be considered that more and more drugs do not seem to fix a shattered mind

Please feel free to criticize my (lack of) punctuation and my word choice instead of addressing the point, it will save others the trouble

I could dissect this, but honestly no. It isn't worth my effort.

 

[churchmouse]

I've known a lot of HEAVY marijuana users (I was a child of the 70's) and not a single one of them was a violent person. Quite the opposite actually.

Yup.
Dude.

 

[churchmouse]

Pretty obvious we have some supporters of legalization here, I'm not one.

I do believe it is possible to trigger certain actions that already may be present in one's personality. We see it with alcohol, why not MJ?
I might not believe MJ caused the person to kill, but I do believe it had a impact on his already present adverse personality.

Alcohol makes people do crazy things; so can drugs. MJ is a drug.

There is a lot I can expand on with this but choose not to in open forum.
Damaged or mis-wired people can be triggered by any number of things. Alcohol is a driving force here. MJ might set off someone that is in the verge anyway but growing up when I did around the people I grew up with and seeing a side of life many folks did not then I have to say, from personal experiences that MJ is the least of our worries in the grand scheme.
Gateway drug, maybe, for the weak and addled.
Do I want it legalized?? Mixed emotions here.

 

[BugI02]

I could dissect this, but honestly no. It isn't worth my effort.

Short form, from a superficial reading of the words you think you know what I mean - and you don't like the way I present myself in general. Perfectly acceptable, something I have been guilty of myself (tips hat to jamil). This is a source of ongoing irritation and eventually you jump in to try to , I don't know - minimize the irritation? Again, not something I haven't done myself, I certainly can't complain when others go there. I even considered that you might be doing this to try to hold a mirror up so I can see myself your idea of how I should see myself, but I don't think you're that subtle

Bottom line, I don't give a dry **** if you love me or hate me. I've got nothing to prove to you or anyone. I have opinions and I will opine. The rest is up to you

 

[KLB]

I have opinions and I will opine.

 

[jamil]

I've known a lot of HEAVY marijuana users (I was a child of the 70's) and not a single one of them was a violent person. Quite the opposite actually.

But did you know any SKINNY ones? You always look out for the skinny ones.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

But did you know any SKINNY ones? You always look out for the skinny ones.

Well, when I graduated high school in 1978, I weighed just 135 lbs. so...

 

[wtburnette]

Well, when I graduated high school in 1978, I weighed just 135 lbs. so...

Heck, I didn't even weigh that. Sr year I weighed about 115lbs and had a size 28 waist. Didn't hit 135 until after basic training.

 

[bwframe]

Coroner: Death of Herman Whitfield III, man who died in IMPD custody, was homicide

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The death of an Indianapolis man who died in police custody in April has been ruled a homicide, according to an autopsy report released Wednesday by the Marion County Coroner’s Office. “We have to prove that the cause of death was caused by the officers and that the use of...

www.wishtv.com

...Toxicology tests show Whitfield had marijuana, including Delta-9 THC, in his system when he died. The Delta-9 THC found in his system “is consistent with empty packages of Delta-9 THC gummies found in his room,” according to the coroner. No other substances were detected...

...Body camera footage provided by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department shows Whitfield being hit at least twice with a Taser while having a “mental health crisis” in the dining room of his parents’ home on Marrison Place...

 

[phylodog]

And?