An answer to "Just had a knock at the door... "

[ckcollins2003]

Playing devil's/CX1's advocate, I don't think there can be any (sane) argument that at the moment the decedent was shot multiple times, there were firearms pointed in his general vicinity. The question I would have was whether they were pointed thusly immediately prior to his opening of his front door.

That was kind of our main discussion as well before all of the incompetent things were said. And that's what I would like to know. I can only assume they were since the police got the first shot off and they claimed the victim already had his gun pointed at them. Then again, you know what happens when you assume... but it only makes sense that they had them drawn beforehand.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Even drawn before the decedent opened the door is subject to confirmation, let alone pointed at the decedent as he opened the door. I'm sure they were being drawn and pointed as the door was opened, but we only have the word of the police as yet.

 

[KLB]

That was kind of our main discussion as well before all of the incompetent things were said. And that's what I would like to know. I can only assume they were since the police got the first shot off and they claimed the victim already had his gun pointed at them. Then again, you know what happens when you assume... but it only makes sense that they had them drawn beforehand.

Unless they were this guy

 

[Valvestate]

Lets try to use a little bit of common sense now, shall we?

I think TF has reserved claimed the use of common sense in favor of the deputies of being liars to cover their ***es.

 

[CathyInBlue]

That was my assessment of the situation upon first reading.

 

[CX1]

Are you ****ing serious? Do you honestly believe the guy was shot that many times without a ****ing gun pointed at him? Tell me you're joking right now.

If you're dead serious about this stupid **** you need sterilized.

Please oh great one, explain to me how a person is shot with a handgun in this situation without one being pointed at him. Please, it will make my morning if you tell me that aliens came down from outer space and humped those holes in the door.

It appears your reading comprehension skills are quite lacking.
I am saying, and have been saying all along:
We don't know for a fact that the dead guy pointed a gun at anyone.

Obviously the police pointed guns at him, shot him and killed him.
I can't honestly believe that other then that is what you think I have ever stated.

I've not seen the ballistic reports, or the bullet trajectory diagrams or how those two thing line up with the wound patterns on the deceased and how all of the aligns with how the officers say the shooting occurred. And I'd wager you haven't either. Without that evidence I could not begin to make an informed decision on what actually happened. But you seem to think you 'know' everything about it.

Unless you are confusing what I wrote about the REAL situation and what I wrote about the hypothetical one. But again that goes back to your reading comprehension ability.
You are getting all wound up and tossing insults around over something I never wrote.

 

[ckcollins2003]

We are not talking about that. We are discussing Ted's hypothetical example of a single individual knocking on someones door to inform them their dog had been run over and the homeowner then immediately pointed a gun at the individual's head.
Jack seems to believe that is perfectly legal to do.

As to the OP incident I believe the apartment dweller was justified in having the gun in hand to answer the door but would not have enough information at the time to justify pointing it under Indiana law simply because two people knocked on his door. If they attempted entry without IDing as LEO then by all means the dweller should point and in fact open fire.
As it stands we do not 'know' if the apartment dweller had a firearm at the time or if he even opened the door. We do not know if the officers had their guns out. We just 'know' what was reported to have happened.
It was a tragic situation but without knowledge of all the evidence it would be impossible for me to assign the majority of the blame for the incident on either party. And sadly we will not get to hear the dead person's side directly.

Just wanted to quote this from you one more time since you say my reading comprehension skills are to blame.

Did you not state that you are referencing the ACTUAL INCIDENT?

Did you not state that "WE DO NOT KNOW IF THE VICTIM HAD A FIREARM AT THE TIME OR EVEN OPENED THE DOOR, OR EVEN IF THE OFFICERS HAD THEIR GUNS OUT"?

I'm pretty sure I comprehend all of that entirely. But I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on the internet about what you've previously stated and what you are stating now. You are contradicting your own previous statements all the while trying to defend them at the same time.

I'm not wound up, in fact I'm laughing hysterically.

 

[Justin Case]

Here is a story involving the same police department earlier this year. I'm thinking it sounds slightly familiar


Family of Man Shot by Lakeland Police Wants Answers | TheLedger.com

 

[Birds Away]

Hmm, seems like the Lakeland Police department may have some 'splainin' to do. Oh wait, no they won't.

 

[CX1]

Just wanted to quote this from you one more time since you say my reading comprehension skills are to blame.

Did you not state that you are referencing the ACTUAL INCIDENT?

Did you not state that "WE DO NOT KNOW IF THE VICTIM HAD A FIREARM AT THE TIME OR EVEN OPENED THE DOOR, OR EVEN IF THE OFFICERS HAD THEIR GUNS OUT"?

I'm pretty sure I comprehend all of that entirely. But I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on the internet about what you've previously stated and what you are stating now. You are contradicting your own previous statements all the while trying to defend them at the same time.

I'm not wound up, in fact I'm laughing hysterically.

Seriously?
You know they had their guns out prior to the dead guy arriving at the door?
Do you not think from a legal stand point there is a major difference on the actions the dead guy would have been legally allowed (justified)to take when confronted with two people at the door vs two people with weapons drawn at his door? Can you not see how knowing exactly when weapons were drawn is crucial to the decision to convict the officers of wrong doing?
So from me stating in that context that we don't know when the officers weapons were drawn(along with other 'facts' not in evidence) you make some huge leap that I am stating the dead guy was shot with some never fired bullets?
Wow.
I think you might do a lot of things hysterically besides laugh.

 

[Justin Case]

I don't know about anyone else, but what I take away from this senseless death is that I need to re-evaluate my planned response to a knock on the door in the middle of the night, or any other time. I need to add a motion detector light and video camera for each door. I already have motion detectors around the perimeter of the house, but I want a dedicated motion detector and video camera for each door so I can clearly view who is knocking at the door and document anything that happens.

Again, still evaluating my plans, but they will include the above at a minimum.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I don't know about anyone else, but what I take away from this senseless death is that I need to re-evaluate my planned response to a knock on the door in the middle of the night, or any other time. I need to add a motion detector light and video camera for each door. I already have motion detectors around the perimeter of the house, but I want a dedicated motion detector and video camera for each door so I can clearly view who is knocking at the door and document anything that happens.

Again, still evaluating my plans, but they will include the above at a minimum.

Years ago I opened the door at 2 or 3 in the morning to a loud knock from what turned out to be a police officer. I, too was armed at the time, with the pistol pointed at what could charitably be described as "low ready". Fortunately, no one got shot, and the officer didn't even make demands to see stuff he didn't need to see, didn't draw on me, nothing untoward whatsoever occurred. But since then I have converted solidly to the "don't answer the door, and make ready for someone to come through it uninvited" camp.

 

[Justin Case]

I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

Lakeland man dead after being shot by police | wtsp.com

 

[Justin Case]

Rally planned for man shot, killed by deputies

Friends, coworkers to rally at courthouse

Rally planned for man shot, killed by deputies | Local News - WESH Home

 

[ckcollins2003]

Good for them. Hopefully something will be done about all of this. It's a bad trend for the officers of that county to get into.