American Middle Class Continues To Be Slowly Wiped Out

[RAnderson]

Republican politicians are not going to save us. Democrat politicians are not going to save us. Only fiscally sound, constitution supporting patriot citizens are going to save us. It's time to turn off the TV and get behind the sound principles our country was founded on.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/15-shocking-poverty-stats.html

 

[Rebecca Sink-Burris]

Could not agree more. Take a look at the Fair Tax, it would help every class and really get the economy moving.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fair tax?

I know you ran from me at the gun show, but answer me this:

Why should we replace one massive bureaucracy for another?

 

[6birds]

Republican politicians are not going to save us. Democrat politicians are not going to save us. Only fiscally sound, constitution supporting patriot citizens are going to save us. It's time to turn off the TV and get behind the sound principles our country was founded on.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/15-shocking-poverty-stats.html

If you're waiting for the govenment to save you, you may have larger issues....

Read thru those 15 "statistics", most are because of personal choices, and have nothing to do with politics.

 

[308jake]

If you're waiting for the govenment to save you, you may have larger issues....

Read thru those 15 "statistics", most are because of personal choices, and have nothing to do with politics.

Many, many, many people are waiting for their bailout. Receiving government handouts is the new "American Dream".

I'm just waiting for the money tree I bought at the swap meet to bloom....guy guaranteed me that it would produce money but that was 4 years ago. I'll keep waiting and watering.

 

[leftsock]

Could not agree more. Take a look at the Fair Tax, it would help every class and really get the economy moving.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the Fair Tax idea. While reading about it, I came across a piece of social engineering. Section 303 - Monthly Poverty Level offers a schedule of rebates based on one's family structure. Basically, it looks like the bigger one's family is, the larger the rebate they receive.

While, selfishly, I like getting rebates, I do believe that any use of the tax code to do anything other than collect funds for the government is a perversion of the system.

Our government doesn't need to be in the business of shaping people's behaviors and actions by providing incentives.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the Fair Tax idea. While reading about it, I came across a piece of social engineering. Section 303 - Monthly Poverty Level offers a schedule of rebates based on one's family structure. Basically, it looks like the bigger one's family is, the larger the rebate they receive.

That is no different than the way the military pays...
If your married you get far more benefits than being single.

 

[CarmelHP]

Fair tax?

I know you ran from me at the gun show, but answer me this:

Why should we replace one massive bureaucracy for another?

Kirk, Kirk, Kirk, don't you remember the answer I got when I RSB this a while back?.....Neither do I, because she never answered me. I think you'll be just as ignored.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Could not agree more. Take a look at the Fair Tax, it would help every class and really get the economy moving.

Really? Umm, can you provide a little more than a sound bite? How will it help every class and really get the economy moving? At least a 200 word essay p[lease.

And while you're at it, what exactly is fair about it? Does it tax all Americans as an overall budget need divided by the total population, or does it still punish those who succeed by redistributing a greater amount of their income?

See, I'm not rich, but I wouldn't mind being some day. I don't view your Fair Tax as being any more likely to allow me to reach my financial goal anytime soon.

 

[Truckerman79]

Fair tax?

I know you ran from me at the gun show, but answer me this:

Why should we replace one massive bureaucracy for another?

It would not create another massive bureaucracy. The retail sales tax would be collected by the states and remitted to the federal government. The state would in turn keep a percentage of the tax collected to cover the cost of collecting the tax. The IRS would be abolished.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the Fair Tax idea. While reading about it, I came across a piece of social engineering. Section 303 - Monthly Poverty Level offers a schedule of rebates based on one's family structure. Basically, it looks like the bigger one's family is, the larger the rebate they receive.

While, selfishly, I like getting rebates, I do believe that any use of the tax code to do anything other than collect funds for the government is a perversion of the system.

Our government doesn't need to be in the business of shaping people's behaviors and actions by providing incentives.

The prebate works to ensure that no tax is paid on spending up to the poverty level.

Kirk, Kirk, Kirk, don't you remember the answer I got when I RSB this a while back?.....Neither do I, because she never answered me. I think you'll be just as ignored.

All the information you need is on the FairTax website.

Let me google that for you

While the FairTax is not perfect by any means, it is heads and shoulders above our current system.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Neither do I, because she never answered me. I think you'll be just as ignored.

Well, at least you just got ignored. She ran from me at the Indy 1500. Heel-toe, heel-toe, heel-toe--it's the Libertarian shuffle.

I thought Libertarians wanted to follow the Constitution, not become the tax collectors for the Welfare State?

 

[leftsock]

The prebate works to ensure that no tax is paid on spending up to the poverty level.

The prebate, like many items in our current tax code, provides an incentive for a certain behavior. Have more kids, keep more money, since one's position in the poverty scale changes as their family size increases.

I'm not against having children, nor do I have a problem with one keeping their money. My problem is with the government, through the tax code, telling people that they can pay less taxes if they do XYZ behavior. Simply because the tax code shouldn't be a mechanism to engineer society's behaviors.

 

[CarmelHP]

It would not create another massive bureaucracy.

....

The prebate works to ensure that no tax is paid on spending up to the poverty level.



All the information you need is on the FairTax website.

Let me google that for you

Really? How do you square those first two comments? You suggest establishing the largest entitlement program in history with extraordinary opportunity and enticement for fraud affecting every individual in the country and you're going to administer it how? And if someone is running for office, "Google it" is sufficient as an answer? Would you accept that flip and insufficient non-answer from an R or D? The hypocrisy is bottomless with L candidates and substance is the thinnest of veneers.

 

[Truckerman79]

Really? How do you square those first two comments? You suggest establishing the largest entitlement program in history with extraordinary opportunity and enticement for fraud affecting every individual in the country and you're going to administer it how? And if someone is running for office, "Google it" is sufficient as an answer? Would you accept that flip and insufficient non-answer from an R or D? The hypocrisy is bottomless with L candidates and substance is the thinnest of veneers.

Establishing the largest entitlement program in history? Every household is going to spend what it needs to every month to provide for the basic necessities. Don't you think that the government should acknowledge the need of every household t cover the cost of basic needs before it starts funding government? The prebate is no more an entitlement program than the standard deduction and exemptions we have under the current system. No one seems to mention that our current income tax system doles out $456 billion more to "favored" taxpayers than the FairTax prebate would.

The prebate would be administered by the Social Security Administration. Only U.S. citizens with a valid social security number would get the prebate. I'm assuming when you mentioned fraud, you were referring to the prebate? As far as fraud goes, sure, there will always be enticement for fraud and cheating. We live in America. Do we not have fraud and cheating at the highest levels in our current system already?

I apologize for my previous insufficient answers as I was in a hurry. You are absolutely right. Any politician that is questioned on any viewpoint should come back with a thorough answer.

 

[Truckerman79]

Below is a link to H.R. 25

Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Click on the printer friendly version, much easier to read IMO.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I would move to eliminate the pre-bate from the fair-tax and move to exclude essential items from sales tax. We currently do this already, with groceries, so I don't see why extending it to basic clothing needs would be any different and/or harder.

If you want to spend your poverty money on gucci bags, then you can pay the tax on it. No need for a pre-bate.

 

[spearheadersarge]

The problem here is not the tax system! The problem here is the fact that governments, at all levels federal, state, county, and local, feel the need to address social issues by spending our tax resources at excessive levels. There is no personal responsability in this country any more. More people than ever are relying on the govt to take care of them. What people want is cradle to grave security and are willing to hand over their meager paychecks and that of their offspring's for generations to achieve it. Wake up people! We're Rome! We're on fire right now! End the entitlements, stop the mollycoddling, force people to get up off their asses and better their situations! Telling someone they have 99 weeks of unemployment and foodstamps and medicade isn't going to make them want to change. Stop wasting our revenue and borrowing away our future. Start this November by voting for fiscal responsability. Make unemployment a hard thing. If you haven't found a job, you gotta perform 4 hours of community service before you get a check. No community service... NO CHECK! See how fast that clears the unemployed rolls! People need to stop saying they are overqualified or that certain jobs are beneath them. I would shovel horse manure 12 hours a day to feed my family if I had to! There is work out there. You just have to reprioritize your life. Make a plan, meet basic needs, cut costs, better yourself through education or training and then re-start your life. It will get better, I promise! Don't rely on the govt, you're just enslaving yourself if you do!

 

[ATOMonkey]

Indeed, even the fair-tax would not eliminate the government from spending more than it takes in.

We need a balanced budget amendment to go along with a flat national sales tax to replace ALL other taxes.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The problem here is not the tax system!

I respectfully disagree.

The problem with the tax system is that a large majority do not feel the pay.

Eliminate withholding and the tax system will change within a week.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I respectfully disagree.

The problem with the tax system is that a large majority do not feel the pay.

Eliminate withholding and the tax system will change within a week.

Yes, but even then there is nothing saying the government must balance the budget.

There isn't even anything saying that all spending must be reported.