3D printer ends the whole idea of "gun control"

[Nathaniel Masters]

Have seen several strings in this forum about the cost & mechanics of "printing" a gun, or at least mags. Might have missed it, but have not seen a discussion that this technology negates the whole idea of "gun control"... when the printers will be legal & eventually common. Of course, even before the 3D printer is perfected, anyone with a lathe can make a passable, single-use gun... And then use that to acquire a more effective unit... As if that was even necessary, given the millions of quality weapons already in circulation.

 

[Trooper]

Once a technology is out, there is no going back. Guns are old technology, well known except to leftwingers who never studied science or engineering (thus have no clue how things are made). The idea that you can regulate people is foolish. The feminists have longed to have a controlled society where male behavior could be modified. Prohibition was one of their first attempts. Did not work. And banning things seems to be the only thing that they know how to do.

At best the left, especially the progerssives (and feminists), thinks that all of life's problems can be solved by technology, laws and regulations or talking it to death. Mostly that is not effective. If people reject the laws, technology and ignore you then what are you going to do? Sometimes it takes a baseball bat and you know how the left dislikes getting up close and personal. The last thing that they want is have to hire a lot of thugs to do the dirty work as they hate the "dirty work" as being too masculine. Plus no cop or soldier is going to see the the lives of the leftwingers as being so valueable that they would die for them.

 

[shibumiseeker]

There have been literally dozens of threads in the last few months about 3d printing ending gun control. I still say it won't just like high quality color laser printers haven't been the end of paper money, or like how you don't see many illegally converted machine guns out there. All they have to do is pass a law making manufacturing illegal without a license and then aggressively pursue and prosecute for a few years, something Kirk keeps ignoring when I point it out in his numerous threads on 3d printing.

 

[Trooper]

There have been literally dozens of threads in the last few months about 3d printing ending gun control. I still say it won't just like high quality color laser printers haven't been the end of paper money, or like how you don't see many illegally converted machine guns out there. All they have to do is pass a law making manufacturing illegal without a license and then aggressively pursue and prosecute for a few years, something Kirk keeps ignoring when I point it out in his numerous threads on 3d printing.

It is already illegal to manufacture a gun without a license. But what keeps you from getting machine tools and making a gun now? Or a suppressor?

It is not hard to make a good AK for example. It was designed to be made by guerrilla forces in the field.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It is already illegal to manufacture a gun without a license. But what keeps you from getting machine tools and making a gun now?

Be advised that if the gun is for you and not for sale and Title I, it is NOT against the law to make a gun. Heck, you don't even have to put a serial number on it.

All they have to do is pass a law making manufacturing illegal without a license and then aggressively pursue and prosecute for a few years, something Kirk keeps ignoring when I point it out in his numerous threads on 3d printing.

What will be the compliance rate on that statute?

If one passes a law that one cannot enforce have they not destroyed the entire gun control regime?

 

[shibumiseeker]

It is already illegal to manufacture a gun without a license.

It most certainly is not. It is illegal to manufacture a gun FOR SALE without a license, but you can manufacture your own guns all you want within the restrictions of the NFA.

What will be the compliance rate on that statute?

If one passes a law that one cannot enforce have they not destroyed the entire gun control regime?

I've asked this before and had you ignore it before, what makes you think they will have low compliance rate? All they have to do is make some very well publicized raids a-la Ruby Ridge and Waco, put a few people in jail for a LONG time for doing whatever they make illegal, cost a few folks tens of thousands of dollars of legal bills to avoid jail and forfeiture of legally owned equipment, and the compliance rate will be fairly high. Especially since gun owners will be the first to turn in anyone doing something illegal as has been often posted right here on InGO.

I think 3d printing is a great thing. But I think it will not be the ultimate end of gun control. Point in fact I think it may make things worse in the long run.

 

[Trooper]

It most certainly is not. It is illegal to manufacture a gun FOR SALE without a license, but you can manufacture your own guns all you want within the restrictions of the NFA.




I've asked this before and had you ignore it before, what makes you think they will have low compliance rate? All they have to do is make some very well publicized raids a-la Ruby Ridge and Waco, put a few people in jail for a LONG time for doing whatever they make illegal, cost a few folks tens of thousands of dollars of legal bills to avoid jail and forfeiture of legally owned equipment, and the compliance rate will be fairly high. Especially since gun owners will be the first to turn in anyone doing something illegal as has been often posted right here on InGO.

I think 3d printing is a great thing. But I think it will not be the ultimate end of gun control. Point in fact I think it may make things worse in the long run.

How well did that work during Prohibition? They made examples of people back then. Did not work. It wasn't the common citizen who did the dirty work, it was organized crime making huge profits off of illegal activities.

You assume that gun owners are mostly white rednecks (ie libertarians). but the biggest demand is among minorities. How easy would it be to smuggle guns in from Mexico? Or make them here? You do not think that the Mexican cartels will not capitalize on the demand?

The UK banned guns. now there are more guns in the UK than before the ban. Lots of smuggling.

 

[Classic]

If you can print the gun and they can't stop you, they will resort to going after the ammo next.

 

[Trooper]

If you can print the gun and they can't stop you, they will resort to going after the ammo next.

Well how hard would it be to smuggle ammo across the Mexican border? Or make our own? You do not have to have brass, plastic would work well. And even aluminum would do. Lots of beer cans out there.

I know of five chemical compounds that could be used in place of gunpowder.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I've asked this before and had you ignore it before, what makes you think they will have low compliance rate?

Human nature, everything from the Old Testament to Prohibition.

A 747 will hold a lot of CDs of gun encyclopedias.

A 747 stuffed with CDs is a lot of bandwith.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Be advised that if the gun is for you and not for sale and Title I, it is NOT against the law to make a gun. Heck, you don't even have to put a serial number on it.



What will be the compliance rate on that statute?

If one passes a law that one cannot enforce have they not destroyed the entire gun control regime?

What's the compliance rate on converting weapons to fully automatic? DIY silencers w/o a tax stamp? My understanding is neither of these feats are technically demanding or expensive.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Have seen several strings in this forum about the cost & mechanics of "printing" a gun, or at least mags. Might have missed it, but have not seen a discussion that this technology negates the whole idea of "gun control"... when the printers will be legal & eventually common. Of course, even before the 3D printer is perfected, anyone with a lathe can make a passable, single-use gun... And then use that to acquire a more effective unit... As if that was even necessary, given the millions of quality weapons already in circulation.

to

All valid points, except you can make far better than single-shots with a lathe.

Of note, there's an example on here of someone who made an AK receiver from a shovel.

With tools, time, and ideas, nothing is impossible.

Good to have you.

 

[shibumiseeker]

The UK banned guns. now there are more guns in the UK than before the ban. Lots of smuggling.

I'd like to see a cite for that assertion as that is not my understanding.

Prohibition didn't have active enforcement on all levels. Prohibition enforcement is better likened to speeding enforcement now, lax with low penalties and those in charge of enforcing the laws breaking them themselves routinely. You and Kirk need to come up with a better analogy.

By the logic Kirk is using, illegal machine guns should be extremely common since they are very easy to make from existing guns. If regulation was pointless because it's so easy to do then why aren't there more out there? Taking a hacksaw to a shotgun or rifle is very easy to do, so why do we have laws against it if they are pointless because it's so easy? Why do people get more jail time for those crimes than many crimes that are way worse?

Look, I want the end of gun control, but politicians have never let pointlessness stand in their way, and if the executive branch decides to aggressively pursue those laws then you can bet no one here will be bragging about having the blueprints.

 

[Excalibur]

This subject is already talked about before. Criminals have already found out hilarious ways to make firearms at home. Forget a 3D printer, I've seen people make their own Stens and that's a gun that was designed to be built in your basement to overthrow the fascists. So the idea of gun control or any weapon control at all really is ineffective when people in prison could make bow and arrows in their spare time.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I know of five chemical compounds that could be used in place of gunpowder.

I would love to be able to brew up my own low-yield explosives capable of being used in a firearm cartridge. Got any resources where I can learn the chemistry of same, the chemistry of which you speak?

How about some that can be electricly detonated so as the trigger mechanism might be replaced by an electric circuit and obviate the need for primers as well?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Look, I want the end of gun control, but politicians have never let pointlessness stand in their way, and if the executive branch decides to aggressively pursue those laws then you can bet no one here will be bragging about having the blueprints.

No one can argue with that statement.

 

[Trooper]

What's the compliance rate on converting weapons to fully automatic? DIY silencers w/o a tax stamp? My understanding is neither of these feats are technically demanding or expensive.

There is very little demand for suppressors or full auto. Less than 1% of all gun owners are even interested. Full auto just consumes too much ammo.

There is a bigger demand among criminals. Once people start smuggling guns and ammo, full auto will be in the mix.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is very little demand for suppressors or full auto. Less than 1% of all gun owners are even interested. Full auto just consumes too much ammo.

There is a bigger demand among criminals. Once people start smuggling guns and ammo, full auto will be in the mix.

Really? Source for less than 1%?

You're saying that less than 1 in 100 gun owners would buy a fully auto AR-15 over a semi-auto if the cost was $10 more for the FA version?

You're saying that less than 1 in 100 gun owners would buy a silencer if there wasn't an onerous paperwork process and a $200 tax stamp involved?

I'm thinking of you were selling fully auto AR-15s with suppressors for less than $2k and no paperwork in the classifieds here you'd get a pretty solid response.

 

[Trooper]

Really? Source for less than 1%?

You're saying that less than 1 in 100 gun owners would buy a fully auto AR-15 over a semi-auto if the cost was $10 more for the FA version?

You're saying that less than 1 in 100 gun owners would buy a silencer if there wasn't an onerous paperwork process and a $200 tax stamp involved?

I'm thinking of you were selling fully auto AR-15s with suppressors for less than $2k and no paperwork in the classifieds here you'd get a pretty solid response.

Most gun owners can not "feed" the guns that they have. you go full auto, say at 850 rounds per minute, and the expense goes right thru the roof. Back when you could get .50 cal rounds for a dollar, few had the money to burn as that gun would have cost over $900 per minute to shoot. Even when you could have bought .223 or .308 at 15 cents per round, it was expensive to shoot full auto. Full auto is a rich man's hobby.

As for suppressors or short barreled guns, that is a different story. Many would buy them if they were class II weapons rather than class III (NFA). But again one could have, until recently, bought most long guns very inexpensively thus small demand for the NFA guns.

And how many gun owners main focus is hunting? There is some demand for short barreled weapons and suppressors but most are satisfied with what is available.

 

[Kirk Freeman]