22LR flippers

[dieselrealtor]

It is indeed emotion. everything you stated is without fact. You can add as many LOLs as you like. It doesn't change the tone of your posts, except to demonstrate your contempt.

You guys complain and mock and whine because you believe "flippers" are violating some universally understood code of ethics. 'Thou shalt not buy up thy neighbor's fair share of the ammo supply at Walmart such that the little children go deprived of shooting sustenance. And double wrath be upon thee if thou shalt profit from it'.

But it's not universally understood. You're only projecting your own moral code onto everyone else as if they should live by your standard of ethics. And when they don't, you complain, mock, and whine. Yes, that's emotion.

It's fine to develop a set of standards that YOU live by. So YOU live by them. Stop judging others who don't.

You are making way too much sense, how dare you use reason.

 

[openwell]

i don't think you want factoids... i heard they itch & burn... you need a special doctor to remove 'em too............. i think??????????? LOL

 

[hornadylnl]

Wouldn't even bother with him anymore man. His pathos laden arguments and fantastical sophistry is like trying to play keep away with the neighborhood spastic...

It's like one stop shopping. Instead of having to go to liberal sites to make anti capitalists heads explode, I can do it right here on INGO.

 

[hornadylnl]

It is indeed emotion. everything you stated is without fact. You can add as many LOLs as you like. It doesn't change the tone of your posts, except to demonstrate your contempt.

You guys complain and mock and whine because you believe "flippers" are violating some universally understood code of ethics. 'Thou shalt not buy up thy neighbor's fair share of the ammo supply at Walmart such that the little children go deprived of shooting sustenance. And double wrath be upon thee if thou shalt profit from it'.

But it's not universally understood. You're only projecting your own moral code onto everyone else as if they should live by your standard of ethics. And when they don't, you complain, mock, and whine. Yes, that's emotion.

It's fine to develop a set of standards that YOU live by. So YOU live by them. Stop judging others who don't.

This.

I don't go to Walmart now and buy ammo to resell right now because it isn't worth my time and effort to make multiple trips in the off chance there might be some there. I won't bother to start buying it til I can expect to walk in on any given day and walk out with at least a full case. I can make more with less effort working overtime at work. When I sell during the next panic, I won't feel any more guilt towards the buyer than if I bought stock at $10 and sold it for $20.

 

[Fletch]

"Price Gouging" Is Essential and Humane - Andrew Mitchell - Mises Daily

Price Gouging Saves Lives in a Hurricane - David M. Brown - Mises Daily

Money quote: "Prices are how scarce goods get allocated in markets in accordance with actual conditions."

 

[jamil]

"Price Gouging" Is Essential and Humane - Andrew Mitchell - Mises Daily

Price Gouging Saves Lives in a Hurricane - David M. Brown - Mises Daily

Money quote: "Prices are how scarce goods get allocated in markets in accordance with actual conditions."

With the ammo "crisis" the scarcity of goods is artificially prolonged because retail suppliers' prices do not reflect the market. The retail outlets don't dare **** off us gun owners. We're a highly ethos oriented group that loves the free market until we hate it.

 

[hornadylnl]

With the ammo "crisis" the scarcity of goods is artificially prolonged because retail suppliers' prices do not reflect the market. The retail outlets don't dare **** off us gun owners. We're a highly ethos oriented group that loves the free market until we hate it.

Here's a video with cartoon drawings to help illustrate the situation. Would probably be more effective in crayon though.

Is Price Gouging Immoral? Should It Be Illegal? - YouTube

 

[HeadlessRoland]

If only manufacturers would do the right thing and raise their prices to actually match demand, this "problem" would go away instantly and their profits would increase 150%. Capitalism: love it or leave it.

 

[jamil]

If only manufacturers would do the right thing and raise their prices to actually match demand, this "problem" would go away instantly and their profits would increase 150%. Capitalism: love it or leave it.

Not instantly. Do you doubt that if everyone in the supply chain priced ammo to the market that stuff would start staying on the shelves? And with more ammo on the shelves people would be less likely to be scared into buying it up? And as the availability increases and demand drops, the price will drop?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Not instantly. Do you doubt that if everyone in the supply chain priced ammo to the market that stuff would start staying on the shelves? And with more ammo on the shelves people would be less likely to be scared into buying it up? And as the availability increases and demand drops, the price will drop?

I don't think you understand me. I don't expect prices - or demand - to drop ever again. The reason there is no .22LR on the shelves right now is because it is underpriced relative to demand for it. Pricing .22LR at $20/500 (or so) is well below market demand. Price for 500 rounds of .22LR is right around $50 according to the secondary market, so once manufacturers raise pricing to reflect demand, then there will be more .22LR on the shelves, and not until then. They're already manufacturing as much as possible.

 

[Fletch]

I don't think you understand me. I don't expect prices - or demand - to drop ever again. The reason there is no .22LR on the shelves right now is because it is underpriced relative to demand for it. Pricing .22LR at $20/500 (or so) is well below market demand. Price for 500 rounds of .22LR is right around $50 according to the secondary market, so once manufacturers raise pricing to reflect demand, then there will be more .22LR on the shelves, and not until then. They're already manufacturing as much as possible.

Exactly. Optimally priced items clear the market. When the last customer leaves, there are no more customers wanting ammo that isn't there, and there is no ammo left on the shelves. If ammo sits on the shelves, it's priced too high, and if customers come in wanting ammo that doesn't exist it's priced too low.

In a properly functioning market, prices should fluctuate all the time to reflect this.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Obviousaly manufactures are still making a profit, or prices would go up to reflect such. You will find it cheaper at places like Chinamart, because of the amount they order. I would never pay $50 a brick for .22. No matter if that is what the market reflects. Something is only as valuable as the consumer sees as such. It's just like when people were selling $900 AR's for $2,000. People bought them, so they obviously saw them to be that valuable. Then the market fell and they were stuck with rifles they paid more then they should have, because they let panic cause artificial inflation. Just the same with .22 ammo. People are the reason for the artificial inflation. They pay what they think something is worth. Yet, so many fail to see that. Instead they blame hoarders and flippers. I'll do without, as I don't see a brick worth more than $25. If I see it at Walmart, I'll buy it. I had plenty even before the panic happend.

 

[jamil]

I don't think you understand me. I don't expect prices - or demand - to drop ever again. The reason there is no .22LR on the shelves right now is because it is underpriced relative to demand for it. Pricing .22LR at $20/500 (or so) is well below market demand. Price for 500 rounds of .22LR is right around $50 according to the secondary market, so once manufacturers raise pricing to reflect demand, then there will be more .22LR on the shelves, and not until then. They're already manufacturing as much as possible.

D'oh, sorry about that. I thought you were being sarcastic.

I do think the price will go down and demand will ease. Eventually people will have all they care to have. Also, I've read that some .22LR manufacturers will raise their prices in the near future, which should help.

 

[hornadylnl]

"Price Gouging" Is Essential and Humane - Andrew Mitchell - Mises Daily

Price Gouging Saves Lives in a Hurricane - David M. Brown - Mises Daily

Money quote: "Prices are how scarce goods get allocated in markets in accordance with actual conditions."

The article discussing rationing reminds me of a story my grandma told me about her mom. I wish she were still around so I could get better details. The gist of it was there was a rationed item that my great grandma didn't particularly use much of. Less than the amount she was able to purchase with her ration card. One day, there was cause for the fire department to come out to the house. Don't think it was an actual fire but the house was filled with smoke. My great grandma was embarrassed when the firemen saw her stockpile of the rationed item thinking they would think she was buying more than allowed when she was not. Had the item not been rationed, she probably would have only bought what she needed. Instead, rationing creates a false desire and thus unnecessarily removing goods from the market.

 

[indiucky]

The article discussing rationing reminds me of a story my grandma told me about her mom. I wish she were still around so I could get better details. The gist of it was there was a rationed item that my great grandma didn't particularly use much of. Less than the amount she was able to purchase with her ration card. One day, there was cause for the fire department to come out to the house. Don't think it was an actual fire but the house was filled with smoke. My great grandma was embarrassed when the firemen saw her stockpile of the rationed item thinking they would think she was buying more than allowed when she was not. Had the item not been rationed, she probably would have only bought what she needed. Instead, rationing creates a false desire and thus unnecessarily removing goods from the market.

That's a neat story Hornady...When I was a kid Mamaw G. had a big stack of gas rationing tickets she would get out and let me and my cousin play "store" with...I hadn't thought about that in years....Funny thing is that 40 years later my little cousin and I both have small businesses or "stores" if you will...Thanks for sharing...

 

[jcwit]

Capitalism is one thing. Helping create an artificial shortage to take financial advantage of it is different.

 

[hornadylnl]

Capitalism is one thing. Helping create an artificial shortage to take financial advantage of it is different.

Luckygunner's has almost 400,000 rounds of 7.62x39 on it's website right now. If I buy 50,000 rounds today and sell it during the next panic a few years down the road, explain how I'm helping to create an artificial shortage. The emotional who are reduced to tears at the flippers aren't going to differentiate between me and the guy who lucks across a box at Wally and resells it that day for a profit. To the emotional, both of us are denying them of what they want, kick puppies and are front line enemies of the second amendment and will be the subject of the same vitriol.

Let's use easy numbers here. There's 1000'boxes of ammo made each year and the usual demand is 1000 boxes. Each year, I buy 2 boxes. Shoot one and put the other back. The other 998 boxes are shot each year. 5 years from now, there's a shortage and I choose to sell my 5 boxes I set back. How many boxes of ammo are available that year? Or, I realize I have 5 extra boxes that year and don't buy my usual 2. In either scenario, how does either one reduce supply?

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Capitalism is one thing. Helping create an artificial shortage to take financial advantage of it is different.

I'm confused by your statement. The panic buyers are setting the prices. How you ask, it's simple. For people to make a profit, others have to be willing to pay what is being asked. If everyone refused to buy it, then they would either have to sit on it, or sell it for what thay paid for it. So, those willing to pay a higher price are the ones driving the price up. The sellers are simply taking advantage of the current situation. It's no ones fault others are willing to pay the inflated prices, except those that are willing to do so. I reload, and people were buying powder and re-selling it. Powder is hard to find, but I know how much I'm willing to pay, or I'll do without. Don't ***** about prices, when you are willing to pay said price. As you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

[M4Madness]

This thread cracks me up -- that's why I'm drawn to it like a moth to a flame. LOL!

I've NEVER sold ammo for profit in my entire life, so the term "flipper" definitely doesn't describe me. I have sold some .22LR to close friends who are less fortunate, and I always keep my receipts and sell to them for exactly what I paid for it, and sometimes even slightly less. I have bought over 20K rounds of .22LR since Sandy Hook (all of it at Wal-Mart) -- and I even went 9 months without even trying to buy more (even though it was available to me). I sold 7K of it to various buddies without making a dime. I've been buying some lately when it comes in, but only on weekends, as that's the only time I can get to it. I feel that I have a high probability of finding some this weekend. Anyone who thinks that their Wal-Mart isn't getting .22's in on at least a weekly basis is sadly mistaken. Recently, in this thread, I discussed how my local Wal-Mart got over 36,000 rounds of it in 10 days' time.

Let's discuss some FACTS:

1. Flippers are the minority when it comes to .22LR purchases.
2. Remove flippers from the equation completely and .22LR will still be missing from the shelves.
3. The current market price for .22LR is at least 10 cents a round. If it is priced less than that, it sells out quickly.
4. Everybody and their brother says that once this "shortage" ends, they're going to stock up. It doesn't take a genius to see that this way of thinking is going to exacerbate the situation even more.
5. Everyone on here pretty much has an equal chance to get .22LR at Wal-Mart, unless you work 7 days a week. If you can't get out of bed and be there at 7AM when it is in stock, then you deserve to pay 10+ cents a round. The same goes for those that feel that they "are better than that and not going lower themselves to such antics". Obviously if you are above that, you can afford to pay the higher price on the secondary market.
6. There is NO shortage of .22LR, only a shortage of it priced below market value.
7. Flippers keep ammo available to everyone, while shooters remove it from the market permanently.
8. Even when priced at $100/1K rounds, it is still way cheaper than 1K rounds of any other caliber.

 

[jcwit]

I'm confused by your statement. The panic buyers are setting the prices. How you ask, it's simple. For people to make a profit, others have to be willing to pay what is being asked. If everyone refused to buy it, then they would either have to sit on it, or sell it for what thay paid for it. So, those willing to pay a higher price are the ones driving the price up. The sellers are simply taking advantage of the current situation. It's no ones fault others are willing to pay the inflated prices, except those that are willing to do so. I reload, and people were buying powder and re-selling it. Powder is hard to find, but I know how much I'm willing to pay, or I'll do without. Don't ***** about prices, when you are willing to pay said price. As you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

The panic are setting the prices because??????????????????????
artificial shortage to take financial advantage

As far as powder availability? Was in a So. Michigan dealers business last Sunday, loaded with powder all brands and most all varities. Prices? $18 to $25 bucks a lb, 8 lb jugs cheaper per lb of course.