22 ammunition

[danielson]

the $5 bottle of water is so that you look at it and say "Im thirsty. I NEED a bottle of water. FIVE BUCKS! I guess i'll just buy one since that is what I need." without the price increasing at all, you pile the entire stock of water bottles "just in case", depriving the guy behind you that also NEEDS ONE bottle of water. (and can get none thanks to the hoarder(flipper).

Personally given the flipping going on, I wish more retailers put reasonable limits or raised prices a bit to slow the flippers down.

Yeah, but your assuming ALL hoarders are flippers. Thats just not true. Take me, for example. I, on many occasions have bought 22 ammo at walmart when I found it, 3 box limit. Now do I NEED 3 boxes right now? NO! But whats the matter with me keeping some back FOR ME? Also, Ive taken some of that ammo I have held back and sold it to a buddy, for a dollar or two more(whatever rounded it up to the most convienent payment amount. Ive also given some to my dad.

There is a CLEAR difference between hoarding and flipping. Mostly its intent. Neither of them are wrong. Its really a morality issue.

 

[hornadylnl]

Well, if thats the case, I apologize if you felt I pointed that at you. I could have sworn Id seen you in the past, talking about, and defending, ammo flipping.

As I said, Its legal, and if thats what your into, so be it. But I have every right to think your an ******* for it.

I don't flip and I don't have a problem with those who do. I don't go through life thinking I'm owed the benevolence of others. What we have here is akin to a driver heading into the dessert ignoring all the warning signs saying no gas for 200 miles with only a couple gallons in the tank. When he runs out, he's angered that passers by don't offer to fill his tank for normal pump price. All the warning signs were there for an ammo shortage. It was largely manufactured by republican voters to manipulate people to vote against Obama. Well, we now have the shortage they promised. No sympathy from me.

Why are those who buy ammo to turn a profit any different than those who buy and sell stocks to turn a profit? Just because it's a particular commodity that affects us, it doesn't change anything. Who here will suffer for not being able to shoot 22?

 

[mbills2223]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

 

[danielson]

I don't flip and I don't have a problem with those who do. I don't go through life thinking I'm owed the benevolence of others. What we have here is akin to a driver heading into the dessert ignoring all the warning signs saying no gas for 200 miles with only a couple gallons in the tank. When he runs out, he's angered that passers by don't offer to fill his tank for normal pump price. All the warning signs were there for an ammo shortage. It was largely manufactured by republican voters to manipulate people to vote against Obama. Well, we now have the shortage they promised. No sympathy from me.

Why are those who buy ammo to turn a profit any different than those who buy and sell stocks to turn a profit? Just because it's a particular commodity that affects us, it doesn't change anything. Who here will suffer for not being able to shoot 22?

I get your analogy. I have always kept as much ammo back for something like this as I could afford. But What Im telling you is, either gas gouging, or ammo gouging. Its wrong. Anyone with a strong moral base knows this. I understand its not how life is, thats why I keep some back for myself. But just because its the way it is, doesnt mean it isnt wrong.

 

[hornadylnl]

I get your analogy. I have always kept as much ammo back for something like this as I could afford. But What Im telling you is, either gas gouging, or ammo gouging. Its wrong. Anyone with a strong moral base knows this. I understand its not how life is, thats why I keep some back for myself. But just because its the way it is, doesnt mean it isnt wrong.

Who's the more moral person? The guy who wouldn't gouge but drives on by or the guy who stops and offers you gas at double the pump price? The guy who drove on by can be outraged with you but he's no better than the gouger. If the stranded motorist is trying to flag me down thinking I owe him because I have enough gas to get him and I both out of the desert at a price he's willing to pay, he's in for a rude awakening.

ETA: If the stranded motorist offered a hefty price, I may just give him enough gas to get him to a pump free of charge along with some advice not to be such an idiot next time.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The moral person would stop and pick his a** up and drive him to the next gas station. He's on his own to get his car from there. At least he is out of danger.

 

[hornadylnl]

The moral person would stop and pick his a** up and drive him to the next gas station. He's on his own to get his car from there. At least he is out of danger.

Agreed. But we have a whole class of people who think it's the duty of others to prepare for themselves and the shortsightedness of everyone else. These people ignore all the warning signs and then want to talk to you about morals and what a bastard you are if you aren't there to catch them every time they fall.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I have 100ct boxes of Minimags for $20 each

 

[Bunnykid68]

I get your analogy. I have always kept as much ammo back for something like this as I could afford. But What Im telling you is, either gas gouging, or ammo gouging. Its wrong. Anyone with a strong moral base knows this. I understand its not how life is, thats why I keep some back for myself. But just because its the way it is, doesnt mean it isnt wrong.

It is not gouging. It would be like calling me a gouger because I charge the lady down the street $35 to cut her yard when I could do it as cheap as $20 and still feed my family. Supply and demand.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I agree. if you take flippers out of the equation, that leaves either hoarders with cabinets so full they are going to have foundation problems, or we would be wading in knee deep piles of 22 brass at the range due to all of the lead being sent down range. As fast as its being produced and snapped up, there is no other explanation.

I dont think the problem lies in hoarding. If that was the case there wouldnt be any overpriced private sale ads on armslist, etc either. It would be nothing but empty shelves across the board.

We just need to stop buying except from corporations and let the flippers choke on their ill gotten gains. I wish WalMart and others would start putting those tamper resistant stickers they do on pharmacy items that say "this was sold by walmart. if you find it for sale elsewhere please contact us" to screw with the LGSs that send flunkies out to WM at 7am every day to snap it all up so they can sell it at elevated prices.

And I love those that justify their actions with "I just went to walmart at 8am and they had 6 boxes. So I bought them all. Its your loss that you cant find it when you go after work, or at lunch, the minute you can. Yeah, so I go to walmart every weekday at 8am. So what? I got my ammo, not my fault I dont have a life (or a job to be at) and you do." Karma's a *****.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I have 100ct boxes of Minimags for $20 each

And you can shove them so far up your a** you choke.

 

[Cameramonkey]

For now, I Just dont take the 22 to the range, or shoot what I have sparingly. Not sure if I said it in this thread, but its sad when its easier and more reasonable to shoot centerfire pistol than rimfire.

 

[bos-94-003]

For now, I Just dont take the 22 to the range, or shoot what I have sparingly. Not sure if I said it in this thread, but its sad when its easier and more reasonable to shoot centerfire pistol than rimfire.

I'm the same way. I have enough .22 to get me through if needed but I only use it when my kids are shooting. Mostly shoot 9 and .40 anymore.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'm the same way. I have enough .22 to get me through if needed but I only use it when my kids are shooting. Mostly shoot 9 and .40 anymore.

Yep, have several bricks dedicated to when I finally get to an appleseed, which only leaves my normal cushion.

Its good to walk into places that sell ammo and regularly see at least 6 boxes of nearly everything at reasonable prices. Not pre-panic, but reasonable... ($18-25 per box)

 

[bos-94-003]

Our local stores are all over the place with pricing. Big R had WWB .40 for $37 but Dunhams, two blocks down the road, had the same for $50. I think it'll be well into next year before you can walk into a store at any given time and purchase all the calibers you want.

 

[Hornett]

.
.
.
I have about 3000 rounds of 22 (I had it way before any ammo crisis) and thought I was a hoarder until I read through this thread.
It seems that I am an amateur at hoarding.
I humbly submit to the owners of the stash pictures being shown.

You can be a total jackwagon and still not be doing anything illegal. Seen the OC incident in Vincennes thread?

If you havent, I'll give you cliffs notes: OP states 2 pistol OCers and a AR OCer went to McDs. AR guy got harassed and if the story is true the cops were over the top (hollywood script level) jerks.
The rest of the thread is essentially arguing back and forth about long gun OCing, we are gonna lose our rights if we dont do it regularly, IF you dont think its a good idea you are just as bad as Obama, etc, etc etc. Wallet even gets a mention eventually.

There. Now you can save two days of your life. LOL

Well now we have to close that thread.
You completely and succinctly summed that up

 

[danielson]

It is not gouging. It would be like calling me a gouger because I charge the lady down the street $35 to cut her yard when I could do it as cheap as $20 and still feed my family. Supply and demand.

Theres a point where EVERYTHING becomes gouging. If you charged her 50 bucks to mow her .75 acre lot, that would be gouging. Unless its the future, and gas is 15$ a gallon..

The problem is, goods and services are so different, especially when you talking about a commonly provided service, like lawn care. If you gouged your customers, you wouldnt be in business long. Because they would get someone else to do it.

Theres only so much ammo made, and only so much allotted for each store in your area, so if someone has a hookup, or is retired and has all day to drive around, they can buy most of it, and resell it. Then, the normal people who just walk into a store looking for ammo, either have to buy that ammo at their price, or have none.

I know, I know. People should have known better, and its on them, for not hoarding. But its still not right. The ammo will not come back until everyone gets a cache set back, that theyre comfortable with. Thankfully, I got enough back, that as long as nothing else happens, I can just restock after its all back (crosses fingers).

But even I learned that Im gonna keep much more 22 back than I had.

 

[jamil]

I can't blame people for "flipping". The market is there and if people are willing to pay that price, why not? But I can still think they are *******s for doing it.

But there is an unnatural market force involved here, and that is the notion of morality driving price. When you can find it, the big box stores still sell .22 at near pre-ban prices because they don't want to be seen as evil gougers, even though the supply/demand supports a higher price. Everything is worth what people are willing to pay. I think big box stores should raise their prices until ammo stays on the shelf but they won't because their customers think that's immoral.

There are a lot of gun owners that don't shoot very often and didn't realize that .22lr ammo became unobtainium this year. Some gun owners shoot 10,000 rounds a year and some might only shoot once a year. It is probably hard for the more active gun-owners to understand but there are a lot of gun owners that consider themselves supporters of the 2nd Amendment but they haven't actually fired a shot in years and still have that one box of ammo they bought years ago. If you don't shoot often or are new to INGO it is possible that you did just metaphorically just crawl out from under a rock.

A few months ago I stopped by the ammo case in Walmart and saw a guy there trying to find 22lr, apparently to help him solve a varmit problem. He had no clue that there was even a shortage. Probably had been years since he bought any ammo. He looked at me like I was the devil when I told him. At that point I wondered if he was among the "pro 2A" gun owners who thought extending background checks was a good idea.

Agreed. But we have a whole class of people who think it's the duty of others to prepare for themselves and the shortsightedness of everyone else. These people ignore all the warning signs and then want to talk to you about morals and what a bastard you are if you aren't there to catch them every time they fall.

I don't flip and I don't have a problem with those who do. I don't go through life thinking I'm owed the benevolence of others. What we have here is akin to a driver heading into the dessert ignoring all the warning signs saying no gas for 200 miles with only a couple gallons in the tank. When he runs out, he's angered that passers by don't offer to fill his tank for normal pump price. All the warning signs were there for an ammo shortage. It was largely manufactured by republican voters to manipulate people to vote against Obama. Well, we now have the shortage they promised. No sympathy from me.

Why are those who buy ammo to turn a profit any different than those who buy and sell stocks to turn a profit? Just because it's a particular commodity that affects us, it doesn't change anything. Who here will suffer for not being able to shoot 22?

C'mon Horn, why do you think you get to argue both sides?

Your analogy strays a bit from reality. Let's change it up to something a bit more accurate according to the INGOtarian line, and say the road signs in the middle of the desert said, "no gas shortages". Now everyone can properly imagine the more accurate conclusion of that.

As I recall the INGOtarians sided with the lefties and laughed at people who thought Obama would go after guns/ammo. He was like the most gun friendly politician ever compared to Romney. Remember?

 

[ljk]

I did see few flippers at the recent 1500 gun show couldn't sell enough off their "inventory" to pay for their tables. which is Good.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can't blame people for "flipping". The market is there and if people are willing to pay that price, why not? But I can still think they are *******s for doing it.

But there is an unnatural market force involved here, and that is the notion of morality driving price. When you can find it, the big box stores still sell .22 at near pre-ban prices because they don't want to be seen as evil gougers, even though the supply/demand supports a higher price. Everything is worth what people are willing to pay. I think big box stores should raise their prices until ammo stays on the shelf but they won't because their customers think that's immoral.



A few months ago I stopped by the ammo case in Walmart and saw a guy there trying to find 22lr, apparently to help him solve a varmit problem. He had no clue that there was even a shortage. Probably had been years since he bought any ammo. He looked at me like I was the devil when I told him. At that point I wondered if he was among the "pro 2A" gun owners who thought extending background checks was a good idea.





C'mon Horn, why do you think you get to argue both sides?

Your analogy strays a bit from reality. Let's change it up to something a bit more accurate according to the INGOtarian line, and say the road signs in the middle of the desert said, "no gas shortages". Now everyone can properly imagine the more accurate conclusion of that.

As I recall the INGOtarians sided with the lefties and laughed at people who thought Obama would go after guns/ammo. He was like the most gun friendly politician ever compared to Romney. Remember?

I never argued there wouldn't be a ban. I watched the same thing happen in 2008. Repub voters shouting from the rooftops that if we didn't vote repub, our guns were guaranteed to be banned. The only people whipping up the ban frenzy were repubs as a campaign tool. They did the same thing this last election.

I don't recall it during the 08 panic but after this last election, those who whipped up the frenzy came out and said there would be no ban hoping to curb shortages. You see, the talk of bans to manipulate voters was great for them. Once Obama won, the panic ensued and all of the sudden they want to talk the panic buyers off the cliff because they could no longer buy guns and ammo at old prices. We'll see the same thing happen again for the congressional elections next year and in 2016.

A coworker asked if he could buy some 22 to kill varmints digging under his pond wall. I scrounged up 200 rounds of partial boxes and gave them to him. He offered to pay and I declined the offer. He came to me with the attitude that he wasn't owed, was in need and was willing to pay. I find that those that are willing to offer something for a favor as payment enough.