1911 guys: Stop me before I...

[Love the 1911]

Bottom line; if you can afford it and you want it...Get it.
I see nothing wrong with that at all.

I do have a question, however...
Is there anything (modifications or aftermarket stuff) that you can't do to a lower end 1911?
Very interested...I'm actually toying with the idea of building one at some point. I'm not sure where to eventually start...But I'm the type that wants every nugget of info and opinion FIRST, at any rate.

With enough knowledge or money and a connection to a great gunsmith, you can make a RIA as custom as any other 1911 on the market. In the process, most gunsmiths will choose to use Wilson components so your gun will only be RIA according to the frame, slide, and grips (maybe the barrel and a few other parts). After all the changes, you will have probably spent as much as buying one of Wilson's, Baer's, Nighthawk's, etc lower-end guns brand new. I've also been thinking about a build using all Wilson components. It will probably be 2 more years before I start but that won't stop me from dreaming.

 

[JetGirl]

Love the 1911, thanks for the info!

I've also been thinking about a build using all Wilson components. It will probably be 2 more years before I start but that won't stop me from dreaming.

Exactly. I know what you mean. It's definitely not something that will probably be done shortly after starting. I'll probably have to save up piece by piece and have half a gun laying around for awhile! Thanks for the tips, though!

 

[John Galt]

If you can afford it and not be second guessing yourself, by all means you should get one at that level. I have Wilson, Baer, Nighthawk, and many Glocks, and yes, there is a difference in feel, fit, and finish. I'm not knocking the other makes and yes, I'm sure they do a good job of putting lead down range, BUT, they've not given me the "feel good" inside that my high-ends have. I have no regrets for spending the extra money. Best of luck in your search and safe shooting

 

[Josh Ward]

I do have a question, however...
Is there anything (modifications or aftermarket stuff) that you can't do to a lower end 1911?
Very interested...I'm actually toying with the idea of building one at some point. I'm not sure where to eventually start...But I'm the type that wants every nugget of info and opinion FIRST, at any rate.

Not really.....you're not going to get the 100% perfect slide/frame fit that you will get with a full custom or semi-custom (the necessity of that is arguable i suppose as well). As mentioned, by the time your finished, its going to be a RIA (or whatever) on the frame markings only, all the guts, parts, pieces are going to be wilson, or something of the like.....

 

[Robert Richardson]

Kind of like comparing a Timex and a Rolex. They both do the same job, just one looks better doing it. If you want the Baer,buy it and don't look back.

 

[JetGirl]

I'm sure they do a good job of putting lead down range, BUT, they've not given me the "feel good" inside that my high-ends have.

Kind of like comparing a Timex and a Rolex. They both do the same job, just one looks better doing it. If you want the Baer,buy it and don't look back.

Those are great answers ^...

Question;

there is a difference in feel, fit,

Can you describe it?

 

[thompal]

This is similar to asking why someone needs a Cadillac instead of a used Pinto. He has worked hard, earned the money, can afford some luxury items in his life, and chooses to spend that money on guns. I don't see an issue with it at all.

Edit: I'm not trying to be a rooster to you. That came out more harsh than I intended. No offense.

None taken.

I don't really think this is a good comparison. In the car case, the expensive car is considerably bigger, and does a LOT that the cheap car won't.

In the 1911 case, the two are functionally identical, and could even swap parts, magazines, ammo. In a blind test, it may or may not be possible to tell which one costs 4 times the money of the other.

 

[OD*]

That is one sexy beast, and nice to see that you actually not only use it, but use it for every day carry. I'd heard a few people express concerns about a Baer as a carry gun.

Let me throw another option into the mix for your reactions. Hopefully we have some guys around here with some Fusion/Serva experience... I believe I may have the option to buy a beautiful Fusion handgun/work of art. Anyone have good/bad experiences with those? Where would you put them as compared with these other makers and guns? They're GAWDawful sexy looking and the few reviews I can find seem to say great things.

Anyone?

Thank you sir.

I would not hesitate to recommend a Les Baer as a carry piece, after function testing like a person would on any firearm before carrying. I have read a lot more good than bad about Fusion, but I have no first hand experience with them to speak of.

 

[60Driver]

In an effort to Quantify the difference in High End Semi-customs I put together a ROUGH parts/labor estimate to take an off the shelf gun to a similar configuration. Obviously prices range a bit and smiths offer package deals. Most limit what frames they will work on, preffering forged for logevity. Prices are for Wilson or Tool steel parts, and labor is from Neil Keller who by all accounts is a "master" who charges fair but not ridiculously for his time.

Labor/Parts

Dovetail Front Sight 45.00 /28.00
Rear Sight 36.00
Kart NM Barrel 45.00+ /119.00
NM Bushing 20.00
Extractor 15.00/ 31.00
Long Ejector 10.00 /31.00
Checker Front strap 185.00
High Cut Frame 40.00
Tighten Frame Slide fit 90.00+
Trigger Job (fire control parts) 75.00
Sear 29.00
Trigger 34.00
Hammer 50.00

Slide Stop 20.00/ 34.00
Forged Pin Set 18.00
Spring Set 14.00
Firing Pin Stop 15.00 /17.00
Install Thumb Safety 15.00 /31.00
Grip Safety 40.00 /80.00
Bevel Mag Well 60.00
Dehorn Pistol 50.00+
Refinish 150+
Test Fire and Zero 30.00

TOTAL: 885.00 + 572.00

At the end of this you come up with 1457.00 plus base gun. So in this light the cost of a Baer , Wilson, NH etc becomes understandable. Hand fitting quality parts to a 1911 Ain't cheap!

Now the question is is it worth it, can I feel the difference, Why spend the $$$$?

Pride of ownership clearly comes into play but I respectfully disagree that all this is just "BLING" (hate that word in reference to a tool!). All of these components make for a precision hand fit pistol that will be more durable over thousands of rounds, and hold its intitial acuracy better. Will it be that much more durable, accurate or reliable, depends on what we are comparing it to, and how long we expext it to hold tolerances. If you Look at the FBI HRT selection process, or MEU/SOC, LAPD SWAT etc, you see very stringent accuracy/reliabilty requirements over thousands of rounds. There was a reason these groups selected Baer, Springer Pro, Custom built Kimber. To meet thier high requirements they needed something more than an "off the shelf" gun. And I am pretty sure they did not choose them based on Bling

I am not slamming well made entry 1911's, I know I am not good enough to shoot the difference between a Baer and a "good" entry gun. But I also know that I can never blame my Baer for my errors and that it will have the highest odds of functioning accurately and reliably under abuse. Guess which one I would count on given the choice. Back to our car analogy, I can take a "stock" Porsche 911 or Vette Z06 onto a race track and it will perform, becuase they were built from the ground up to perform at a very high level. Do that with an econo-box and the breaks will fade/fail, the car will overheat, tires chunk and fail, and my lap times will show it, and the longer I run said econo-box the higher the chance of catastrophic failure. Now with the right parts and tuning that "econo-box" can compete but it costs! As always just my

 

[Love the 1911]

In an effort to Quantify the difference in High End Semi-customs I put together a ROUGH parts/labor estimate to take an off the shelf gun to a similar configuration. Obviously prices range a bit and smiths offer package deals. Most limit what frames they will work on, preffering forged for logevity. Prices are for Wilson or Tool steel parts, and labor is from Neil Keller who by all accounts is a "master" who charges fair but not ridiculously for his time.

Labor/Parts

Dovetail Front Sight 45.00 /28.00
Rear Sight 36.00
Kart NM Barrel 45.00+ /119.00
NM Bushing 20.00
Extractor 15.00/ 31.00
Long Ejector 10.00 /31.00
Checker Front strap 185.00
High Cut Frame 40.00
Tighten Frame Slide fit 90.00+
Trigger Job (fire control parts) 75.00
Sear 29.00
Trigger 34.00
Hammer 50.00

Slide Stop 20.00/ 34.00
Forged Pin Set 18.00
Spring Set 14.00
Firing Pin Stop 15.00 /17.00
Install Thumb Safety 15.00 /31.00
Grip Safety 40.00 /80.00
Bevel Mag Well 60.00
Dehorn Pistol 50.00+
Refinish 150+
Test Fire and Zero 30.00

TOTAL: 885.00 + 572.00

At the end of this you come up with 1457.00 plus base gun. So in this light the cost of a Baer , Wilson, NH etc becomes understandable. Hand fitting quality parts to a 1911 Ain't cheap!

Now the question is is it worth it, can I feel the difference, Why spend the $$$$?

Pride of ownership clearly comes into play but I respectfully disagree that all this is just "BLING" (hate that word in reference to a tool!). All of these components make for a precision hand fit pistol that will be more durable over thousands of rounds, and hold its intitial acuracy better. Will it be that much more durable, accurate or reliable, depends on what we are comparing it to, and how long we expext it to hold tolerances. If you Look at the FBI HRT selection process, or MEU/SOC, LAPD SWAT etc, you see very stringent accuracy/reliabilty requirements over thousands of rounds. There was a reason these groups selected Baer, Springer Pro, Custom built Kimber. To meet thier high requirements they needed something more than an "off the shelf" gun. And I am pretty sure they did not choose them based on Bling

I am not slamming well made entry 1911's, I know I am not good enough to shoot the difference between a Baer and a "good" entry gun. But I also know that I can never blame my Baer for my errors and that it will have the highest odds of functioning accurately and reliably under abuse. Guess which one I would count on given the choice. Back to our car analogy, I can take a "stock" Porsche 911 or Vette Z06 onto a race track and it will perform, becuase they were built from the ground up to perform at a very high level. Do that with an econo-box and the breaks will fade/fail, the car will overheat, tires chunk and fail, and my lap times will show it, and the longer I run said econo-box the higher the chance of catastrophic failure. Now with the right parts and tuning that "econo-box" can compete but it costs! As always just my

I'm out of rep. Thanks for doing the math to justify my earlier post and not make me look completely foolish. Facts are a great thing to have instead of just opinions and educated guesses (ie: my earlier post at the time I posted it).

 

[iChokePeople]

OK, first, thank you all for your ideas and input. This will be my first 1911 of this quality/caliber/price, and I'm trying to make myself believe it's logical, somehow...

You've allowed me to convince myself that it is. More important, I even got the wife to give [tacit] permission to "get the gun you really want", though I MAY have neglected to mention some of the details.

So now, next question -- for those of you with experience shopping for 1911s in Indiana: Are there any local shops worth visiting before I just buy one from some online auction house or from Bob Serva at Fusion? (Yes, still considering a Fusion custom/semi-custom job.) I've read through the shop reviews here on the forum and called some. Most don't have anything in stock in this range. Elmore's does and I was planning a trip there tomorrow, but the reviews elsewhere on the forum aren't that great...

 

[Love the 1911]

I honestly don't know of any local shops that stock new high-end 1911's on a regular basis. I've never seen a new Wilson but I've seen a few used ones in stores. Nighthawk has an authorized dealer on the south side of Indy but I haven't made it out there. For this kind of investment, I'd try to contact the maker and see if you can visit the factory and see a few of their firearms before your purchase. Especially if you're already set on the manufacturer. Good luck and know that my jealousy is crippling my ability to be nice to you for much longer

 

[ftbstrd]

1911 choice

I have both.
Sure, for the money the Kimber is way prettier to look at.
It's got all the bling, bells & whistles that the Rock doesn't (lowered/flared ejection port, skeletonized hammer & trigger, extended thumb safety, great finish, on and on)...
but when I pull the trigger on the Rock, it goes bang and puts a hole in the place I was aiming...just like the Kimber does.
Bottom line: they both go bang at the appropriate times.
Justification for the extra $ is in the eye of the beholder. I think there's room for all of them...I just wondered why people think entry level 1911s might not be good shooters.

+1 I have both and both are awesome shooters!
P.S. I have also had Colt, Para and Sig and they were just as good of a shooter!

 

[HICKMAN]

I wish the OP luck in his quest.

I ran in to a deal here in the INGO classifieds months ago that I'm still shocked about.

Sometimes, the gun just finds you.

 

[bman1962]

My buddy bought a new Nighthawk recently and I thought he said he got it in Columbia city somewhere????? I'll try to find out again for you this weekend. I will say it is a really sweet looking and shooting 1911.

 

[iChokePeople]

Looks like I'm going shopping. I think I'll go ahead and try elmore's tomorrow, then some of the others that have been recommended. Hopefully I can get several of these side by side and make a decision. Those ed browns get great reviews and look awfully sexy, too. If someone local has something I like at a price close to what i can get online, maybe I'll have a new toy tomorrow night. I'll let you know and post pics, of course.

Thank you all for your experience, expertise, shop insights, and ideas. If you have other thoughts, keep them coming.

 

[bw210]

I wish the OP luck in his quest.

I ran in to a deal here in the INGO classifieds months ago that I'm still shocked about.

Sometimes, the gun just finds you.

Yes it does! I stumbled upon the Springfield railed Professional(Pro) about a month ago in the classifieds (thanks Bucknut). Near mint with 50 rounds down the pipe. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase again. For some things, words can not express. The feel and fit of a high end 1911 is one of them.

All the high end 1911's are pretty similar in internals and machining. If you believe you found the one that suits you and you can afford, I absolutely say go for it.

 

[Josh Ward]

Indiana Gun Club stocks Wilson, Brown, Baer, and Nighthawk

 

[rec4309]

Clark Hardball, more accurate than most of us will ever be, and will go bang every time. 1600 +-

 

[iChokePeople]

Just for porn purposes, here's a pic of the fusion that's currently in the running with the other stuff.