14 Yr Old Pakistani girl shot by Taliban

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I find myself in disagreement with some folks who think it will do nothing. It already has.

Fifty (50) clerics have issued a fatwa declaring this action as "un-Islamic." See story here: Clerics declare Malala shooting 'un-Islamic' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Will it on and of itself tip the scales of social and political power in Pakistan and/or the Middle East? Answer = NO. However, my friends, this does not mean that it is for nothing.

Our own American Revolution wasn't over or about a single action the British had taken. Rather, it was a "series of unacceptable events" that built up to a willingness to declare freedom. So too shall it be in the Middle East against intolerant religious zealots. It takes time and acts so unacceptable to the human conscience to motivate people to action.

This attack may also cause many on the fence to get off of the fence and take a side. As I understand it (no Koran expert here) the teachings of Mohammad do NOT forbid women to get an education but it is the social norms that have done so. This then may lead to a greater understanding of their own religion and force the issue to the surface of discussion in Pakistan and lead to a greater understanding.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants..." - T Jefferson. In this case the patriot was a 14 year old girl named Malala Yousafzai fighting for the freedom to learn.

So endeth the minority report.

Regards,

Doug

 

[mike8170]

To All,

I find myself in disagreement with some folks who think it will do nothing. It already has.

Fifty (50) clerics have issued a fatwa declaring fatwa against this action as "un-Islamic." See story here: Clerics declare Malala shooting 'un-Islamic' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Will it on and of itself tip the scales of social and political power in Pakistan and/or the Middle East? Answer = NO. However, my friends, this does not mean that it is for nothing.

Our own American Revolution wasn't over or about a single action the British had taken. Rather, it was a "series of unacceptable events" that built up to a willingness to declare freedom. So too shall it be in the Middle East against intolerant religious zealots. It takes time and acts so unacceptable to the human conscience to motivate people to action.

This attack may also cause many on the fence to get off of the fence and take a side. As I understand it (no Koran expert here) the teachings of Mohammad do NOT forbid women to get an education but it is the social norms that have done so. This then may lead to a greater understanding of their own religion and force the issue to the surface of discussion in Pakistan and lead to a greater understanding.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants..." - T Jefferson. In this case the patriot was a 14 year old girl named Malala Yousafzai fighting for the freedom to learn.

So endeth the minority report.

Regards,

Doug

+ 1 to you, sir. Most people do not know that Mohammed was orphaned, raised by a concerned uncle and educated, with a great understanding of mathematics. This got him a job with a wealthy merchant, who he later married, making him wealthy in return. And yes, the merchant he married was a woman. Islam is based on the 'Five Pillars' of Islam, are the foundation of Muslim life:

• Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
• Establishment of the daily prayers;
• Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
• Self-purification through fasting; and
• The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

The reason that Islam spread so quickly from the Arabian Penninsula was that this is all that it took to become Muslim. And, since Jews, Christians, and Muslims were all "People of the Book", as preached by Mohammed, conversion was not needed to be a believer in Allah.
Along the same line, if a custom was not forbidden by the teaching of Mohammed, it was fine for that region to continue those traditions, which this is just an example of. Women in these areas were treated in this manner, or worse, centuries before the rise of Islam, Christianity, or even Judaism. There is still much debate on this since it wasn't until the 1970's that the Indus and Harrapan civilizations were discovered in this area, but popular belief is that women were treated as property, just as in other civilizations, due to the harshness of the environment. In turn, those traditions would have become Sharia in those areas and moved to other areas of Muslim control.

 

[9mmfan]

Libertarian has expressed my thoughts better than I could have. It just seems to me that a wave of 'anti-Taibanism' is building in Pakistan. How big this gets or how long this lasts is yet to be determined.

 

[Effingham]

Fifty (50) clerics have issued a fatwa declaring fatwa against this action as "un-Islamic." See story here: Clerics declare Malala shooting 'un-Islamic' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Yes, they have. But I'm quoting a friend's post about this from another forum:

You may have read that a group of 50 Islamic clerics in Pakistan issued a fatwa declaring the actions of the men and the group that shot 14 year old Malala as un-Islamic. They also said the group was funded/controlled by the United States. That got me a little annoyed so I went looking for original documents. Funnily enough, most Muslim clerics don't have a web presence. So I had to look around the edges and do a little research. Which turned up some interesting things.

The SIC (the council of clerics who issued the fatwa) opposed the Taliban from the very beginning. Not that this makes them friendly to us. They asked the US for money to have an anti-Taliban rally and ended up using it to stage a celebration for Mumtaz Qadri, the bodyguard who murdered the Governor of Punjab for speaking out against the blasphemy laws. This same council then forbid any Muslim to pray for the dead governor or any cleric to conduct his funeral services. They even annulled his marriage (which one would think would cause a great deal of problems for his wife and children) because his 'crime' clearly made him non-Muslim. So, not the most friendly of guys, but anti-Taliban.

So... yeah.

 

[jeremy]

To All,

I find myself in disagreement with some folks who think it will do nothing. It already has.

Fifty (50) clerics have issued a fatwa declaring this action as "un-Islamic." See story here: Clerics declare Malala shooting 'un-Islamic' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Will it on and of itself tip the scales of social and political power in Pakistan and/or the Middle East? Answer = NO. However, my friends, this does not mean that it is for nothing.

Our own American Revolution wasn't over or about a single action the British had taken. Rather, it was a "series of unacceptable events" that built up to a willingness to declare freedom. So too shall it be in the Middle East against intolerant religious zealots. It takes time and acts so unacceptable to the human conscience to motivate people to action.

This attack may also cause many on the fence to get off of the fence and take a side. As I understand it (no Koran expert here) the teachings of Mohammad do NOT forbid women to get an education but it is the social norms that have done so. This then may lead to a greater understanding of their own religion and force the issue to the surface of discussion in Pakistan and lead to a greater understanding.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants..." - T Jefferson. In this case the patriot was a 14 year old girl named Malala Yousafzai fighting for the freedom to learn.

So endeth the minority report.

Regards,

Doug

I'm less than impressed...

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Props to you Doug, being a libertarian that actually understands the term "incrementalism".

That said - it is a crying shame that lives of courageous young women are being traded for such a pittance of change.... and while I won't use the term "nothing", I will use the term "not nearly enough".

 

[jon5212]

This is what happened when you have rampant radical religious teachings running government and people.

If and when the middle east can get past that is when they will take a step forward. However the only people that can do that are themselves.

We need to bow out and let these countries fix themselves.

 

[Effingham]

We need to bow out and let these countries fix themselves.

Would only it were that easy. Given that some of them want to wipe one of our allies off the map, and that some of them supply something we need, and many of them think the very fact that we exist (and thus corrupt the world with our media), this is not bloody likely to happen.

Anyone have a realistic idea?

 

[Solitaire]

Would only it were that easy. Given that some of them want to wipe one of our allies off the map, and that some of them supply something we need, and many of them think the very fact that we exist (and thus corrupt the world with our media), this is not bloody likely to happen.

Anyone have a realistic idea?

Nuke 'em? (Just kidding)

Honestly, what good are we doing by mixing it up with these clowns? Is Egypt better off now than under Mubarak? How's the situation on the ground in Libya? Is freedom ringing in Iraq yet? And how many more years is it going to take the greatest military power in the world to eliminate a group of superstitious, illiterate goat herders hiding in poppy fields? Have we won any hearts and minds with the loss of our blood and treasure?

As far as our ally....they can take care of themselves. They can call if they need something, I think we've got a couple of boats in the area.

We've got a good enough working relationship with the major oil producing countries, despite the fundamental disagreement on which magic man in the sky is real. Money is often a a good ointment for such rashes.

Have we ever tried to not meddle in middle eastern affairs? I think it would be interesting to see who the masses in the sandbox blame for all of their ills, if the great satan (us) wasn't around as a convenient punching bag for their regimes.

 

[9mmfan]

This is what happened when you have rampant radical religious teachings running government and people.

If and when the middle east can get past that is when they will take a step forward. However the only people that can do that are themselves.

We need to bow out and let these countries fix themselves.

That is why I brought up this thread. Will this tragic event be enough to bring about a change in the way the Pakistani (for that manner, the areas) people view the Taliban and will the so call 'silent majority' of peaceful Muslims step up and take back their lives.

 

[Solitaire]

That is why I brought up this thread. Will this tragic event be enough to bring about a change in the way the Pakistani (for that manner, the areas) people view the Taliban and will the so call 'silent majority' of peaceful Muslims step up and take back their lives.

I suppose that depends on the existence of this so-called "silent majority." I'm not so sure that there isn't a large percentage of the population over there that, while they do not approve of this particular act, agree in principle with most of the things the taliban stands for. I don't think you can compare our way of thinking with theirs. Totally different perspectives.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nuke 'em? (Just kidding)

Honestly, what good are we doing by mixing it up with these clowns? Is Egypt better off now than under Mubarak? How's the situation on the ground in Libya? Is freedom ringing in Iraq yet? And how many more years is it going to take the greatest military power in the world to eliminate a group of superstitious, illiterate goat herders hiding in poppy fields? Have we won any hearts and minds with the loss of our blood and treasure?

As far as our ally....they can take care of themselves. They can call if they need something, I think we've got a couple of boats in the area.

We've got a good enough working relationship with the major oil producing countries, despite the fundamental disagreement on which magic man in the sky is real. Money is often a a good ointment for such rashes.

Have we ever tried to not meddle in middle eastern affairs? I think it would be interesting to see who the masses in the sandbox blame for all of their ills, if the great satan (us) wasn't around as a convenient punching bag for their regimes.

Good points. I find that we easily forget that it is difficult/impossible to impose 'freedom' on those who lack any understanding of the concept, thus making the exercise a fool's errand.

 

[jeremy]

That is why I brought up this thread. Will this tragic event be enough to bring about a change in the way the Pakistani (for that manner, the areas) people view the Taliban and will the so call 'silent majority' of peaceful Muslims step up and take back their lives.

Will this events change anything over there?!


This is not an unusual events in any given week there.

I have seen Fathers damn night beat there Daughters to death there, for something a Brother done. I have heard of families burning, stabbing, shooting there Daughters for the Family to receive medical aid from the US Military, NGOs, UN, etc, etc... Women thereare nothing more than Property. I have seen Husbands, and Fathers trade their Wife/Daughter for supplies...

 

[jcwit]

Taliban and will the so call 'silent majority' of peaceful Muslims step up and take back their lives.

That right there is a joke!

 

[mrjarrell]

Things aren't looking good for the girl.

Pakistan's Malala has 'very limited' chances - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

 

[cesna250]

No. In fact that man probably got a free beer from it. Or whatever alcohol beverage of his choice. Not sure whats popular over there.

 

[jon5212]

Would only it were that easy. Given that some of them want to wipe one of our allies off the map, and that some of them supply something we need, and many of them think the very fact that we exist (and thus corrupt the world with our media), this is not bloody likely to happen.

Anyone have a realistic idea?

So you rather have our government keep meddling in the affairs of other countries and spending our country into oblivion?

What would you think of a foreign country coming over here and meddling in our lives?

 

[jeremy]

So you rather have our government keep meddling in the affairs of other countries and spending our country into oblivion?

Strategy, is sometimes costly. Even more so when you have several different groups inside the Government who are plotting and scheming against each other on the Global scale and not just at home...

What would you think of a foreign country coming over here and meddling in our lives?

You are very naive if you think there are not foreign countries working and meddling here in the US currently....

 

[sepe]

I'm not sure why the OP thinks this incident should change anything in the Islamic Third World; she's just a woman, and all women are good for is producing babies (especially male babies) and doing housework. They're property, just like the men's goats and cattle. The uppity little ***** got what she deserved. So say the Third World Islamists.

This kind of information is simply disgusting and is false. The goats are treated with the highest regards. Please stop spreading this offensive misinformation.

 

[jon5212]

Strategy, is sometimes costly. Even more so when you have several different groups inside the Government who are plotting and scheming against each other on the Global scale and not just at home...




You are very naive if you think there are not foreign countries working and meddling here in the US currently....

I'm more informed than you think. I'm talking about afghanistan type interactions and the like.

I really think the only hope we have to survive is to pull back and start scaling back government.

We've got our hands in too many honey pots... and it will eventually bring the end.